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"I've been on the front lines of the online revolution"
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well, I think I learned something
Posted by Jim Wilson 3/5/2008 2:28:23 PM

Seriously, despite all this BS, Mr. Derring's comments are spot on -- and are really insightful. I'm glad there was some payoff in this conversation.

Dave Wilson, of course, places anyone who worked in print during the transition as "on the front lines"

As someone who fought very hard AGAINST some of the dumbest online ideas from print people -- in the same positions as Matt -- at a two large KR papers, I guess my question would be, "which SIDE of the front lines would Matt have been while he was at the front?"

I can recall a LOT of friendly fire over the last 12 years... dumb, dumb, dumb ideas coming from print people shoved down online's throat by people who think they have a clue. On the front lines doesn't mean you're working TOGETHER to make this happen.

That is why I left very large newspaper websites in KR and went to another medium website altogether. So I could tell my stupid print bosses -- who would consider themselves "on the front lines" (sadly) -- that they don't know ANYTHING. (which they don't)

It's what made Mr. Derring's comment's so true...

My turn ...
Posted by Alex Dering 3/5/2008 7:38:48 AM

Rather, Mr. Mansfield, like pretty much every other newspaper manager for the past decade, has been trying to figure out how to successfully transform a medium that based on daily print distribution into a medium that is based on continual availability of constantly updated copy supported completely by advertising.

The "transformation" from print to Internet has been going on for a decade. If it takes 10 years, it's no longer "transformation." It's more correctly called "growth" or, in this case, "collapse" or "death" or "implosion."

Papers are losing jobs, have been for years. Whoever is on the "front lines" of this "online revolution," attention: you're losing! Can you hear me? As a group, you are doing the sort of thing that, were it a military action, would be written about in history books with the following intro: "In what came to be known universally as a staggering defeat, a truly idiotic goosestepping straight into the woodchipper ..."

Attempts to wed Internet to print started off fundamentally flawed: let's dump print content onto the web. Design? Aw, hell, just slap it up there? Ads? Sure, we'll let 'em look like crap. What's that? Use the Internet for things that can't be done in print? Huh? What?

The Internet models themselves, are often still hideous, hamfisted, and overstuffed nonusefuls such as freeforall comment sections filled with racist insanity or garden variety illogic. And let's not forget bad coding that freezes the browsers.

And the latest example of this idiocy? Every reporter now needs a blog, a Facebook page, a MySpace identity. What's that? Stick to reporting? So that people will read it? Oh, you're so Old School, Alex.

Ever see that episode of The Brady Bunch where Marcia signs up for every after-school club? Yeah, there's a lesson in that.

If I were in the front lines of the online revolution, I would not admit it. It has been a disaster on par with New Coke, or the John Wayne Gacy Clown College.

Obtusiosity
Posted by Dave Wilson 3/5/2008 1:48:43 AM

Um, I believe Mr. Mansfield's claim to have been on the front lines of the online revolution is not related to something as mundane as the design of a Web site or even the even more esoteric issue of whether the software backend developed for Knight Ridder's Web sites was a pit of despair. Rather, Mr. Mansfield, like pretty much every other newspaper manager for the past decade, has been trying to figure out how to successfully transform a medium that based on daily print distribution into a medium that is based on continual availability of constantly updated copy supported completely by advertising. There's no question that Mr. Mansfield's claim to have been on the front lines of the digital revolution is factually correct.

Disclaimer: I worked at the Merc till 2000, and as i recall I found myself in a somewhat heated argument with Mr. Mansfield in a San Jose kitchen a year or so ago over the Merc's performance on a particular story...

and so it comes full circle
Posted by Jim Wilson 3/5/2008 1:16:57 AM

This has played out just as I figured it would...

Romenesko overplays a "story" (more like a puff piece written by his apparent best friend) on a mid-level manager who took a buyout at a newspaper. He misrepresents the "story" with a quote as the headline that has nothing to do with the rest of the puff piece (it reads like a press release -- I guess a needed one since "consulting" is the next gig).

Next, someone asks a simple question. Since this is a site for JOURNALISTS you would think a question about someone's background could be easily tolerated.

But no, the person asking a question of the annointed gets slapped down. (Typical "emporor has no clothes thinking")

Then, someone else says off-handedly that this really isn't a big deal overall (again, tracing back to the over-played aspect of Romenesko)

And, now, we have the "above it all" person (probably a clone of the Mac guy from the commercials) telling us to "chill out" and discrediting others by questioning everyone -- and even telling one of us to just leave and go to the angry site. (When clearly asking a question should not label one as "angry")

So there you have it. Professional Journalists who overplay a story, write a bad headline, insult a person asking a question, insult another person who implies this is not the end of the world type career move....

And, NO ONE learns from it.

Journalists shouldnt even come to Romenesko any longer. It is POINTLESS.

A simple discussion among adults asking serious questions and it devolves to "move along" and "who are you? I don't know you"

Yes, print Journalism is doing just fine. Keep all this behavior up.

Geez, chill out folks...
Posted by Chris O'Brien 3/5/2008 12:48:32 AM

Hey, Peter: Your profile says you work at the Mercury News as a reporter. I don't recall meeting you in the nine years I've been here, or seeing your name in our company directory. But if you're really here, we could use some help with a few stories. So introduce yourself around and feel free to pitch in...

As for the rest of the folks, let me just say that having worked with Matt, he's just saying he worked in Silicon Valley where the online revolution (to a large degree) occurred. I don't think he's claiming credit one way or the other.

Jim: Let me point you to angryjournalist.com to vent.

P.S.
Posted by Peter Sinclair 3/4/2008 11:41:21 PM

The most substantial Mercury News redesign effort in recent years was the decision to kill the Local section and wrap that news into Section A. That decision was so reviled by readers that the Merc reversed the decision shortly after implementing it.

Reality check
Posted by Peter Sinclair 3/4/2008 10:51:56 PM

Journalists shouldn't take this SND article seriously.

and one more thing...
Posted by Jim Wilson 3/4/2008 9:42:07 PM

If Romenesko -- the all-seeing, all-knowing -- had not chosen that quote as the HEADLINE for the story about Matt leaving, then I question whether I would have asked any of this.

But, let's just say that over the last 12 years many of us who have run newspaper websites (after they have been through numerous awful layoffs and various corporate "realignments" -- from being under the newspaper to being under a central division to back again) are touchy about print folks (as much as they live in San Jose and "care" about the web and running a blog) saying they are "on the front lines" of online.

If this person, who, again, I don't know, but whose resume and more I have seen online, claims to be "on the front lines" then where does that put the people who do the work, plan the online strategy and actually run the websites? Really.

Where does that put the people who started Google and some of the more REAL online businesses?

Am I to believe that a print designer with a photo blog is just as "on the front lines" as I have been for 12 years running various news websites?

I'm not so sure... And, perhaps, this is all just because of the emphasis from our wonderful and do-no-wrong Romenesko.

it's real simple
Posted by Jim Wilson 3/4/2008 9:29:32 PM

Look, I was saying I don't know him because I don't know him personally.

But, I will with every bone in my body question and ask whether someone was "on the front lines of the online revolution" when they worked for a company that self-destructed and whose complete online division was a joke and in shambles. Even McClatchy didn't want it -- THAT is how bad it was.

Now, if this person, who I don't know, but have read thoroughly about, had anything to do with the design, implementation or other work of Knight Ridder Digitial then his "on the front lines" claim is dubious. (Because KR Digital was well in the rear -- and hardly the front lines of anything...)

If he was a print designer the whole time for a newspaper then, again, his claim of "on the front lines" is dubious.

By living in San Jose and saying you were "on the front lines" is certainly true -- based on geography. (In that case, I guess I can say I am on the "front lines" in the war on terror since I live in NYC.)

But, this person, who I don't know, but whose entire career I have read about, has no online management experience.

In fact, he has no web experience except for a rogue newspaper photo blog -- that appears to operate well outside the bounds of the Mercury News website (no standard ad positions, and no navigation and no identification of just what the site IS)

So, geography and a random blog aside, I take issue with a professional in our business claiming to be "on the front lines" when they have never done the work.

Period. I don't have to know the PERSON to ask that.

And, again, this is not an attack on anyone. It's a simple question of .... well... a question.

Matt Mansfield is a class act
Posted by Charles Apple 3/4/2008 9:27:46 PM

I'd say I'll miss Matt. But he's not going anywhere, as far as the rest of us -- those of us not at the Merc -- are concerned. Matt's the vice-president of the Society for News Design and will remain active in the field of news design, both in print and online.

Matt's a class guy. We need more like him in this business. But we seem to have fewer than ever before.

Best wishes to Matt and the enormous number of talented people he has led and mentored throughout his career.

Two things ...
Posted by Mark Friesen 3/4/2008 7:54:52 PM

If one is going to question someone else's bona fides and he finds himself typing "I don't know this person, but ..." I'd suggest he do a couple things before posting:

1. Close window
2. Move along

Thank you.

"front lines" of the online revolution???
Posted by Jim Wilson 3/4/2008 4:18:13 PM

I don't know this person, but ANYONE who was related in any way to any Knight Ridder Digital initiative is NOT someone who was on the "front lines" of the online revolution.

As someone who worked with and launched "Market Leader" and had many, many conversations with other Knight Ridder newspaper "cellmates" across the country during this time, I can tell you that the people in San Jose had no idea what they were doing. None.

Now, this guy, who apparently didnt work for Knight Ridder Digital (which might be his only saving grace) says he was "on the front lines"?

Sorry, but I think it says quite a lot when McClatchy buys Knight Ridder and then doesnt keep any employees from the online division and abandons the wonderful "Market Leader" software...

I'm going to call someone's bluff on anyone at any KR newspaper -- especially that close to the corporate DISASTER -- as part of the "online revolution"

Just living in San Jose doesn't do it.

In fact, the complete idiot Tony Ridder moved the entire company from Miami to San Jose based on that flawed logic. And, that move alone cost and wasted MILLIONS at Knight Ridder. (Who knows how much more quickly that contributed to its ultimate demise)

So, please spare us this "front lines" stuff. The people in Lawrence, Kansas were not on the front lines, but they sure outwitted a lumbering foolish giant like Knight Ridder (Digital being optional).

Sorry to see him go
Posted by Geoffrey Giordano 3/4/2008 3:12:08 PM

I feel for you, Matt. I made the same kind of tough choice a couple of years ago, opting to give myself my life back after riding herd on some of the biggest stories in our nation's history. How the Fourth Estate evolves as we lose talent of this caliber remains to be seen ...

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