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AOLiens' Words on Paper

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If unreasonable, then possibly void
11/4/2001 5:52:59 PM
Posted By: Hans Hermans, NL

There is an unreasonable aspect in these TOS. One should assume that granting the IRREVOCABLE license (as part of the copyright) is there
just to protect AOL against lawsuits for copyright infringement. Any other use of such a license seems unreasonable. Under Dutch law such
an agreement can be unlawful and therefore void.
So are 'shrink wrap agreements' void and agreements where there was no free choice for one (or both) of the contract partners. Especially
the right 'to modify' any texts of the author without prior permission is in breach of Dutch copyright law. I know that US copyright law protects
authors less well than continental European copyright laws, but one should look carefully to what protection the law offers.
One should look at US contract law. There might be similar restrictions on the validity of a contract. Don't think that AOL lawyers know best.
Remember: New York Times lawyers were wrong also on the reuse of material of freelance writers published in the NYT.

This use of poster's material is especially hypocrite, because AOL might hope that an author is less willing to pursue his rights, because he
might look 'less patriotic' as the proceeds will go to the victims of September 11th.

aol and publishing
11/2/2001 1:57:51 PM
Posted By: Sandi

Unfortunately I have to agree that it appears to be legal for aol to publish chat room stuff, but that has never been challenged to date as far as I know. I seem to remember a few warning flurries when the subject first came up. I also don't think anybody really expected AOL to do anything with it. Maybe somebody should challenge it? Has it occurred to anyone that this happened after aol and time/warner merged? Hmmmm. Isn't warner a book publisher? Money for nothing and content for free? PS, I heard that Casey and Rosen did ask for permissions.

AOL terms of service allow it
11/1/2001 7:53:52 PM
Posted By: Steve Outing

You can certainly argue that AOL shouldn't be publishing its users' words without permission. I think it's bad form, at the very least. But the AOL terms of service (agreed to by all members) does allow what AOL has done with this book.

Here's the passage from the TOS:
"By submitting Content to any 'Public Area' (e.g. public chat rooms, message boards, software libraries, see ROR for definition) you automatically grant -- or warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted -- AOL Inc. the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such Content (in whole or part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed for the full term of any Rights that may exist in such Content."

questions re aol book
11/1/2001 2:00:18 PM
Posted By: Sandi

As a freelance writer--and website owner--I am alarmed by AOL publishing a book of chat room comments as though they own the material. I've read in the past that some contracts state that ISP owners own copyright to the material published on the Internet--including personal websites. I'd be interested to hear AOL's and Warner's rationale for publishing other people's words for gain--even if the money does go to charity. Is this the first shot across the bow? What's next? Taking articles off my personal website (just an example I don't do AOL) and publishing them in a book? Was permission granted, or was the material paid for Ethan Casey and Jay Rosen's book?

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