AP accuses George Zimmerman of copying photo

Los Angeles Times | Associated Press | PetaPixel

The Associated Press wants George Zimmerman to stop the sale of his latest painting because the image is not his own, according to a Jan. 25 story from the AP.

Zimmerman’s painting depicts Jacksonville-based prosecutor Angela Corey holding her thumb and fingers together. An apparently made-up quote Zimmerman added to the piece reads, “I have this much respect for the American judicial system.” Corey’s office prosecuted Zimmerman for the 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was acquitted of second-degree murder last summer.

Zimmerman’s brother, Robert Zimmerman Jr, posted the image on Twitter, Saba Hamedy reported in the Los Angeles Times on Jan. 25. Hamedy reports that the AP sent a letter to Zimmerman’s lawyers asking that the sale be stopped. The original image came from a 2012 photo by freelance photographer Rick Wilson, according to the AP.

On Friday, Zimmerman, who uses the Twitter handle “TherealGeorgeZ,” wrote on his account: “No worries AP, I’ll just take whatever U sue me for off your tab when I’m done suing you. Or … I could put out how much U offered me 2.”
AP spokesman Paul Colford said, “We don’t know what he’s talking about.”

DL Cade reported on the photo turned painting for PetaPixel on Saturday, noting that the whole thing feels a little familiar:

The entire situation seems very similar to the case between the AP and [artist] Shepard Fairey, which ultimately resulted in a $1.6 million dollar settlement, plus a $25,000 penalty because Fairey destroyed evidence in the case. Perhaps the AP is hoping to head off a costly legal battle… or win a similar verdict if they can’t.

Previously: Shepard Fairey gets probation for actions in AP photo case

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  • Curtis

    You did not pay much attention in school, did you? A wall, fence, etc are all designed and erected for the same purpose. And that purpose is to keep things in or out of an area. That includes children so if you climbed over “whatever you want to use as the terminology” then you did so against the owner’s wishes. Moot? I don’t think so. You just seem to feel that kids are allowed to do what they want, when they want and that is not true.

    And why do you assume I think TM is a thug? I have never used that term referring to him since I learned about the incident in 2012. You must just associate me with a group of people, which is profiling and profiling is wrong.

  • eyemale

    1st thing, again it was a wall not a fence,,,wall!!! brick wall, it was about 4 – 5 feet tall, I don’t know if we had a right to hop over it but it was determined we didn’t do anything illegal, we were also minors and an adult placed his hands on us, so your ramblings about fences, rights , private property and etc are moot , the adult that grabbed my friend do so because he thought we were up to no good and not because he was enforcing illegal wall jumping.. he didn’t like the way we looked the way we dressed or maybe it was our long hair ,or thought we were “thugs” , that why I told the story because how it compares to GZ and TM , TM wasn’t really doing anything wrong or illegal GZ just thought he was up to no good , or that he was on drugs or maybe he was the one who commented the past break in’s, GZ commented TM was just walking in the rain like that was so strange , like it not possible when TM left for the store the rain let up , and picked up when he was on the way home , considering all things GZ told NEN what he noticed about TM there was really no red flags that TM was committing or was about to commit a criminal act,fact is GZ has said these things about many people’s behavior on many calls to NEN ” doesn’t look right , something up, up to no good” and etc ,

    every parent thinks that have teach there kids to be well mannered individuals who would of never done what TM did, or their kids don’t get high or drink or act up and get in trouble when with their friends and etc, and it that unconditional love and trust parents have that makes it so easy for their kids/teens to lie about there where a bouts , getting high or even owning a gun, so I would be-careful about who kids people call thugs because they just might have a thug living in their home right under their nose , I don’t know how many times a mother has bragged about their daughter being a good girl AND soon after that the “good girl” is pulled out of school because she she knocked up and don’t even know for sure who the father is .. so parents keep pointing fingers at other parents kids , while you brag about your parenting LOL

  • Curtis

    And you also need to be made aware of TMs so called wrap sheet. The reason he has none is because the school resource officer who caught him with burglary tools and womens jewelry is because he gave TM a break. The officer knew TM would have a hard time living future life with a record.

  • Curtis

    Im not taking GZs word. I am taking star witness #9s statement that TM was already back at his dads townhouse. and then couple that with the fact that theincident took place at the T and you have yourself some OK evidence that TM was headed towards GZ. And in no way do I believe a single reporter. They report for ratings not the complete truth. I have dug up plenty of personal records of TM and they paint a very vivid picture of just who he was.

  • eyemale

    TM’s life style back in Miami hanging with friends , partying , drinking and mouthing off has little to with this . I think many teens act very different around friends then they do when alone and just walking to the store and back.. even a lot adults have a different personality around certain people , then lets say they do at work , you don’t know TM ,you just read reports of things he has done (which there isn’t that much) and have assume this who he was , teens act up sometimes , get in trouble and do stupid things ,, I know I did and my friends did , but I wasn’t a gang banging thug . when I was 15-17 I was cocky , talked back to my parents , ditch school with my friends, and even got caught shop lifting once .. no charges made , but my point is a few bad acts don’t define a person , most of the time I wasn’t acting up , I just went to school , played sports and went home , and there are times {here and there} went a little wild . TM had no police record or a rap sheet, he was a normal teen going thru a frustrating time between kid and adult . his life was hip hop and rappers who appear cool and bad .. my life as a teen was rock n roll , wild and crazy , pot smoking and long hair were our idols. one of my famous song back then was by Alice cooper and think explains that teen period perfectly “Well, I got a baby’s brain and an old man’s heart Took eighteen years to get this far Don’t always know what I’m talkin’ about Feels like I’m livin’ in the middle of doubt”..”Well, I’m in the middle without any plans I’m a boy and I’m a man” some of us remember was it was like being young , and some people {maybe like you} don’t remember and become those old people you complain about when you were young..

    one my expressions is ” the game is the same , only the players change”

    there are few reasons why TM ended up back at the “T” where I don’t believe the fight started ,once again you are taking GZ word on that, not realizing that GZ had to tell a story of a path back to his truck which he couldn’t do if he said the fight broke out farer down the “T” but any ways TM didn’t see his would-be attacker for a few min’s so walked back to see his truck was still there , or realized he dropped something and back tracked to look for it . either possibilities would of brought them face to face.

  • Curtis

    I thought you were not going to talk to me anymore.

    You are correct, many people out there sitting on the walls. But you are wring to think that nobody cares. What you fail to see is that people hopping fences and whatnot are not quite as brazen as you think and do so without anyone knowing.

    For you tell me that a judge told you that hopping fences is legal and OK to do so, well, sir, you must be the biggest ding dong in the world. He was just doing you a favor. Much like how many criminals do catch breaks every once in a while from a cop. Does not mean what you are doing is wrong. Just means someone is having a nice day. I assure you, any person caught hopping my fence will catch ramifications.

    Whether I see the story as you want it, the fact still means that you had no business hopping a fence as well as NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TOUCH ANOTHER PERSON. Why can you not accept that? Are you above everyone else? What makes you so special?

    Back to GZ. What he did was not illegal. What Det Serino “would have done” is not comparable. Many people place blinders on. But you fail to understand that no law was broken until someone’s nose was busted. Why do you keep telling me GZ is my hero? Only people who are TM supporters automatically suggest that if they can’t agree with them, well, then that must mean we are supporters of GZ. Not true. I have told you before, I don;t care what happens to GZ and I was on the fence during the whole trial. I did not pick a side due to the media and definitely did not decide based on a race. If you are upset with anyone, blame the system and not the person because he violated no laws that night. Get over it.

  • eyemale

    right at this moment there are 1000′s sitting on wall , hopping a wall , leaning against a wall , and no ones cares. or see’s a crime or a reason to be concern ,,I was at my friends trial because I was a witness and when the judge asked what we doing and I replied taking a short cut to visit a friend , his comment was about his days as a youth how he as hopped a few walls in his days to receive a baseball that was hit over and etc.. I hate to tell you but you are way over the top on this one . you have focused on the wrong part of the story. it was about people who take matters in their own hands and assume things about others and instead of calling police decide they will take action. in this country we have laws and those laws are enforced by law enforcement who are trained professionals , when DET serino was asked by the state as a professional how he would of handled what GZ claimed TM was doing when GZ 1st reported to NEN he said based on his understanding there was nothing to be concerned about , and would of just drove by or just asked TM what he was doing . he never understood GZ fear of the teen to the point he felt he couldn’t talk to him or ask him a question. he added the whole situation would of resolved with one simple question ” hi I am GZ nhw Capitan do live around here” the DET also said GZ had a few more opportunities to calm the situation by ID-ing himself . and asked GZ why he didn’t to get a reply ” I don’t know” do you realize how many times GZ said ” I don’t know , I don’t remember and the famous ” I have a bad memory anyways” when asked how it is he didn’t know the name of the street when there was only 3 and he patrols and walks his dog there . The DET knew the getting an address story was just a story to explain why he was away from his truck so long. But now the DET isn’t a DET any more and has been transfered ( he claims at his request) funny the man who thought GZ was lying and should be charged gets demoted and transfered .. ” at his request? LOL wink wink yeah right” face it your hero is a lair and got away with murder do to the fact there was no one around to prove his story as untrue. if this was your teen who was shot would you just accept ” the system as spoken , so just get over it ?..

  • Justice Delivered

    I am afraid that most Travonites hardly ever crack a book.

  • Curtis

    This fella eyemale is quite a character. For a week now he has argued over and over that TM had every right to place his hands on GZ. But when he discussing about eyemale’s buddy winning a court case because some other man put his hands on his buddy, that the judge ruled the man should have never placed his hands on the buddy. I tried to tell eyemale that the comment was the very thing I was trying to get him to understand but now his rebuttal is that I just want to argue with whatever comments he makes. I fear people think that justice means conviction on behalf of their opinions. If they would just take off the blinders and read a law book or two, then only then will they understand how this case played out.

  • Curtis

    And I believe you are mistaking what the Judge ruled on. The judge ruled on your friend being assaulted. I would be your life savings again that the Judge did NOT rule that you had every right to climb all over items that are restricted. You are failing to see what the difference is. But I suspect as much from a cabbie.

  • Curtis

    Incorrect, sir. What you are trying to tell me is that you had every right to climb on a wall when you did not. I agree that the guy who pulled on your buddy was in the wrong for “touching” your buddy but the fact still remains that you had no business climbing on a structure that did not belong to you or your buddy. That is where you fail to see the light. I never said you were trespassing. I said you were entering into a restricted area when you were not supposed to. Even though your buddy lived there, he had no ownership rights to EVER jump a fence that separates anything. A gated community is restricted whether you can’t understand that or not. And what I argue is for the 100th time, TM had no business touching GZ. GZ had no business touching TM. I have argued that point and you countered that he had every right to do so. Then all of a sudden you get the idea to tell me that the judge ruled that the man had no right to touch your friend. That is the very thing I have been trying to get across your thick skull but you argued and argued and argued against it. I could care less what GZ does with his life. I am not a supporter of him nor am I a supporter of TM. But I can tell you that I watched the entire trial from start to finish (minus maybe an hour) and from everything presented, GZ is innocent. How he reaches to live the rest of his life is up to him. Again, if you want an education lesson, I am available pro-bono.

  • eyemale

    I know your deal ,I was supporting TM so now everything I say you have to try and debunk, did you miss the part where I said the law , the court made the ruling we did nothing wrong.. walls can also just divide property we were not trespassing, the apt owner was also named in the law suit and had no issues with us hopping the wall he was found not liable for my friends injuries but the guy who grabbed him was . roof tops are a totally different issue , so enough of your over reaching lament . just keep making excuses for your killer hero , and chill about two teens hopping wall which didn’t take a life .

  • Curtis

    My ramblings coincide with law and commonsense. Neither of which you have provided in any of our debates. Whether you understand what a fence was designed and erected for is your misunderstanding of the education system. That would probably explain why you are a chauffeur for a living. Walls, fences, etc are designed to keep things in or out. They are not designed for boys to climb and find shortcuts. Whether you had access to the apartment complex or not, I would bet you your life savings that the owners of the apartment complex would agree with me that two young boys had zero permission to do so. So yes, the area was restricted. As far as your buddy getting dragged off the wall, well, he should not have been there. Do you think it is perfectly acceptable to hop onto building roofs that do not belong to you? Do you think that repairs, damage, liability, etc are the responsibility of a couple of kids? I sure hope you have a bit more commonsense than that. Back to the education lesson that you failed in NY.

    Restricted: limited in extent, number, scope, or action.

    Private property: Private property is the ownership of property by non-governmental legal entities. Private property is distinguishable from public property, which is owned by a state entity; and collective property, which is owned by a group of non-governmental entities. Private property is further distinguished from personal property, which refers to property for personal use and consumption.

    Now that we should understand real estate and to where you do not belong.

    And for the past 100 posts I have had with you, the entire time I said that TM had no business touching GZ and GZ had no business touching TM. You argued and argued and argued. Then all of a sudden you spit out some court ruling in favor of your buddy and then said that the judge told him that the aggressor had no business touching your friend. So which is it? Is it that you are only in favor of touching people when it benefits your opinions? I am not disagreeing with your judge’s ruling. I am disagreeing the fact that you only seem to feel that touching people and fighting is perfectly acceptable only when it benefits you.

    And if you want more educational lessons, I am available between the hours of 17:30-22:00 W-F. I am sure my 220+ college credit hours will surpass what your brain has function for.

  • eyemale

    man your ramblings are endless , it wasn’t private property or restricted property , the wall divided to apt complex , one we was just visiting our friend at one and the other where we could of easily walked around to front and walked thru because it was open to the public , you know people who live in apts are allowed visitors . instead of walking all the way around we took a short cut over the wall , the point you are missing the man that grabbed my friend was a tenant and we no where near an apt he was renting. he just didn’t like the fact we were hopping a wall and grabbed and injured a minor .. the Court already said he was wrong , but you want to argue that point with out even being there seeing what happen , or having clue a what you are talking about , you just want to disagree for the sake of disagreeing… and I am done debating you over this .. so argue with a friend , spouse , your kids or who ever ,,

  • Curtis

    My name is Curtis (not Guy) but thanks for trying. A fenced in area is restricted whether you like it or not. Hence a fenceline to keep things in or out. Two young boys who do not belong there is restricted from hopping someone’s property without their consent.

    This is a direct quote from you, “the judge even said he no authority to place his hands on anyone.”

    That is the same exact thing I have been telling you since our first encounter. Not a single person can place their hands on another without consent. A direct example is TM. He had no business placing a single finger on GZ as does GZ not being able to place a finger on another person without consent. So, please sit back, chew on your words for a moment and actually think about the evidence presented (i.e. a head full of cuts, bruises, broken noses, blood, etc) and tell me who placed their hands on whom. And in your direct quote, that would prove that you are in support of people not touching others, including TM.

  • eyemale

    Guy It wasn’t a restricted area. ( where you come up with this stuff ) private property maybe , but it wasn’t this guy property he just pulled a GZ , a man who thinks he can act like police because he think he is in the right. by the way my friend parents sued him and won , the judge even said he no authority to place his hands on anyone .

  • Curtis

    In 2011, the US experienced 9,461 homicides. 728 of those involved weapons no other than fists, feet, and heads. That is about 8% of the homicides resulted from using no additional weapons other than what they were given at the time of birth. So don’t tell me, GZs injuries are not worthy of defending his own life.

  • Curtis

    Jesus? No, no fictional characters here.

    For the record, using the term that TM used that night is a direct quote towards a particular race of a person and not on his actions.
    A racial slur is a racial slur that is a racial slur. Using it in whatever context you want will make you a racist. According to dictionary.com, ” a derogatory or disrespectful nickname for a racial group, used without restraint” is the definition of a racial slur. It said nothing about saying a slur to point out a particular person during a private conversation. And if I ever catch anyone call my adopted child of color anything close to that word, better stand by.

    And looking at many, and I mean many, of TMs texts, he clearly had a problem with the white race. So, I sure hope that you do not use racial remarks in your private conversations. Paula Deen made a racial remark in a private setting and look what happened. Mel Gibson said some racial remarks and look what happened. Dog the bounty hunter said some racial remarks and look what happened. Amy Winehouse, Charlie Sheen, and Kanye West all have said some racial remarks and look what happened. Jesse Jackson was almost president until he uttered racial remarks. Regardless of your racial stance, you have to admit that racial remarks have no business on this planet. Judge someone by their skills, integrity, and behavior and not on the color of one’s skin. Do you think we could have multinational organizations if it were not for diversity? Calling ANYONE the N-word, regardless of the color of the person speaking it just shows a lack of vocabulary and education.

  • Curtis

    OK. I can agree that GZ annoyed another citizen who had a right to be where he was. No denying there and I don’t suspect many people will argue there. But what you are wrong about is when TM “had enough of GZ’s intimidation.” You don’t know that. Remember the circumstantial evidence you keep spitting in my face? Same thing applies. You have no idea of either party’s intent. But what we do know was that TM was not so scared if he was able to run 100 yards to the place of his temporary residence and then back another 100 yards when there was no threat at that time. What you had was a curious boy who thought he would be able to take on “the creepy $@# [racial slur].” And you also say GZ did not have the common sense to announce his role in the neighborhood. I agree there. But I also disagree that your buddy was innocent in the fight. He came back to the scene. For example, (and I really do hope you chew on this before commenting) you have two guys get in an argument in a bar/club. The argument separates and one guy heads out of the club. If that guy comes back in to confront the guy in the bar/club then he is the instigator. The same thing happened during the 2012 incident. OK, so back to the real topic at hand. You had one person who might have wrongly been suspicious of someone (not a crime). You have the so-called suspicious person take off running (not a crime). You have the NHW run after the so-called suspicious character (not a crime). The two separate and one person waits for and discusses the incident with authorities. Then you have the so-called suspicious character who returned moments later (not a crime until some sort of altercation happened. And that my friend, when the altercation happens is a crime). That was the first law that was broken that night. You claim that all GZ had to do was wait for the cops and they would straighten things out. Correct. And the same thing goes for TM. Had he been scared to begin with, he should have called the authorities and let them handle it. Instead, he came back to be a big man and prove himself to someone.

  • Curtis

    Whatever you want to call it, you hopped into a restricted area. You may call it a short cut but respectable members of society call it private property. And the owner had every right to protect his property. I am not making an excuse for why the man touched your friend but you both were breaking the law and then got upset when the man defended his property and the outcome was not in your benefit. Glad your friend only received a broken arm instead of a gun to the face and possibly worse outcome. But until you realize that the man’s property was clearly marked as private property with a wall/fence/gate/etc.

  • eyemale

    LOL your name doesn’t happen to be Jesus? I don’t think racism can be defined as using a racial slur once in a while in a private conversation. racism is a hate and belief that one race is better than another . calling one black man the N-word because you are mad at him or he done something to you is not the same as calling all blacks the N-word . TM was annoyed by GZ actions and was concern and angry so he used a slur in a private conversation about GZ , not all white men..

  • eyemale

    what I am saying is , all GZ did was annoy another citizen who had a right to be where he was , gz was wrong about TM, and when TM had enough of GZ’s intimidation TM confronted GZ . and by confronted I mean wanted to know why he was being followed and GZ didn’t have enough common sense to say ” I am the NHW captain” and try to calm the situation. he acted like a man out to hurt TM and annoyed and got TM angry, which would be a totally normal reaction from someone being followed by a stranger,

  • eyemale

    not a fence , a wall, brick wall to be exact, what do you mean by “clearly had no pedestrian traffic allowed” we were teens we used a short cut , pretty sure were not only ones in history to hop a wall, the adult man grabbed my friend ( who was a minor) throwing him to the ground hard enough to break his arm, one minute you are talking about how wrong it is for a person to place their hands on another , and now your are making excuses for adult to grab a teen and break his arm. even in making a citizen arrest a person as limitations, A citizens can’t just grab, touch or place their hands on someone because they believe they are up to no good , too many people think they have authority, they have a belief that if they believe they are doing right they can exercise their own form of justice , in this country we have laws , and we pay taxes to law enforcement and courts to enforce those laws ,

  • Curtis

    I don’t believe GZ. I believe what was released and spoken of during court. And last I checked, GZ never uttered a word other than to answer the judge’s questions. So you must be referring to the countless amount of media releases that were not admitted into court.

    eyemale stated, “the law in FL says the threaten doesn’t have to retreat. meaning if GZ can go looking for TM , then TM can go looking for GZ.”

    That is the biggest load I have ever heard. Are you telling me that the duty to retreat also allows someone to go search for people? Are you sure you know what retreat and stand your ground actually means? Neither of which mean to seek out anything other than seeking out safe ground.

  • Curtis

    OK. Sit down and chew on this one for a while. I can see that you don’t believe GZs story. Good for you. Do I believe it? I don’t know what I believe in terms of his story. But what I can tell you I believe in is the stories from the witnesses that help support GZs claim. Look at Witness #9. She said he[TM] was already at his house yet the incident took place 100 yards away from his townhouse. So what you are telling me is that TM and GZ never left the T-intersection and that Witness #9 was lying? That is the same witness who was supposed to be the star witness and get TM his justice. I don’t know if you saw her testimony or any of her Tweets, etc, but she painted a very clear picture of just how she and her friends, including TM, lived. Tons of evidence of underage drinking and illegal drug use. Tons of foul language, etc. Tons of running your mouth to insight an argument, not to be confused with debate.

  • Curtis

    He was shot because he decided to double-back and test GZ. If GZ was some “creep a$$-[racial slur]” then why go back to the same place you just ran from?

  • Curtis

    And that my friend is illegal and wrong. And if these fights are as common as you think, then please tell me just how many fights you see on a daily basis. Around any other place than New York, we value family morals by teaching our youth not to fight.

  • Curtis

    You just cannot get over the hump can you? Regardless of how severe his injuries were, the idea behind self-defense does not have a list of acceptable injuries. So, because you seem to imagine that self-defense can ONLY happen if you lose a leg or something, let’s recap and get educated.

    Definitions:

    Self-defense – The protection of one’s person or property against some injury attempted by another. (keywords: some injury)

    Justifiable use of deadly force. FL Statute 776.013 – (1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if: (keywords: fear of)

    You see, injuries do not have to be there to use the use of deadly force. It is the fear that death or great bodily harm that will win a case over and over. Think about it. If a person points a water gun at you in terms of a false robbery, you have fear that you may die or receive great bodily harm. Did the gun shoot you? No. Did the gun hit you? No. Did you sustain any physical injury from the person or gun? No. But do you have justifiable use of deadly force if you thought that gun was real and used in an illegal manner? Yes you sure do. You need to sit down and read some law books instead of Cab/Limo Driver Quarterly. That way you know right from wrong.

    As far as why you ask should TM have to identify himself when GZ was of concern? Well, that is easy. That is because he decided to go against his friend’s suggestions of finding a safe place to be and came back 100 yards to confront GZ. You can’t dance around that fact. Your story might have claim if TM and GZ both stood there in that same T-intersection since the beginning of the “suspicion.” Instead of finding safety and then returning. Once TM returned, he became a person of interest in terms of who was the aggressor of the shot. Keep in mind that GZ may have been the initial instigator but once TM came back to say hello, TM became the person of interest of who confronted whom first.

    “acted like some creep”

    Mighty big words for someone who knows nothing about GZ other than what was released in the media. Teach our youth to be less racist and more productive in society. Don’t let your gangbangin’ daddy (proven that he has gang affiliation) take responsibility of his out-of-control child and push him to live with your girlfriend who does not live with you, and then head out on a date. You better believe that when I was in trouble, I was not hanging around the streets, nor was I given money to go shopping, and definitely, my parents were not out gallivanting around town while I was unsupervised. It was my actions of being unsupervised that got me in trouble to begin with. And since my parents were more actively involved in keeping my ill-behaved actions at a minimum, you don’t see me texting/Tweeting/Facebooking about how many rounds I won or lost in a fight on the street. You don’t see me posting pics of illegal plants being grown, you don’t see me brewing a batch of Lean, you don’t see me trying to buy and sell pistols on the underground market (I buy my guns legally and of age), you don’t see me commonly use words of racism, you don’t see me commenting and telling people just how much I like getting in trouble to be tough. What you do see, is an extremely educated (5 higher-education degrees and 2 classes shy of graduate degree) military veteran who has put forth his life towards the freedom of so many while others abuse the system.

  • eyemale

    and fights ARE very common in America , I think you would be surprise how many every day.. an every day fight is….broken nose , black eye, sore ribs , if the guy can walk away on his own with no problems , then that is what I call an every day fight

  • eyemale

    the police asked him a few times if he wanted to go to the hospital when he said his head hurt , once in the police car on the way to the station, and again during an interview , dude enough already ,injured people go to the hospital; and people who claim their head was pounded on a sidewalk again and again until they almost pasted out , go get checked out Period!!! he tested with in normal range at the scene ,and didn’t want so much as an X-ray …BS GZ wasn’t hurt that bad , the whole trial was about GZ terrible beating where he had to kill a teen because he thought his life was in danger.. can’t you stop making these lame excuses for your hero. GZ was not hurt , wasn’t in a life threatening fight, he just wimped out , why would TM have TO ID himself? GZ was the person concern about TM being there , and was the adult . he knew TM was getting annoyed with him , it was up to the adult to calm the situation, but instead GZ acted like some creep stalking TM.. make a note ” you, me or no one likes to be followed” especially at night . it can be a very scary thing not knowing what the person wants , and if just go home they know where you live , so they can come back another time and wait for you…

  • Curtis

    “EMT released him based on the fact there were no concerning factors”

    EMT did what they could to inform GZ that he should seek medical treatment. In fact, someone (police or EMT) walked up and asked him if his nose always looked broken. Broken noses are not cause for a ride to the ER in an ambulance. Ever rode in an ambulance and rode in one without insurance? Seems pretty costly to me. I would not want that charge.

    What is an “everyday fight?” You speak of fights as if they are common place in America. That may be true of the hustle and bustle of the New York area but come to the rest of the USA. A majority of your so-called everyday fights are only conducted between our youth. And guess what? A fight resulted in a death. Teach your little ones to keep their hands to themselves. Do you honestly think that a gunshot would have taken place if the two just identified themselves to begin with?

  • Curtis

    My 20 year old cousin who dies 2 years after his severe brain injury had his brain autopsied and they found nothing. He lost vision in one eye, lost his math and English skills and had to learn that all over. Took him 2 years to get back to 75% and enroll into college again. He was in his senior year when the incident happened and scheduled to graduate. Then almost to the T, he passed in his sleep at the age of 21. Because the latest autopsy by the State of Utah did not find any causes to his death, the killer continues to sit in prison for his 10 year sentence for attempted manslaughter and not murder. Am I mad at the system? No. Am I mad at the killer? You bet. Am I going to spend the rest of my life dwelling over it? No. I respect the decisions of my elders and professionals.

    In my cousin’s situation, it was because a game of Dungeons and Dragons did not go as planned.

  • Curtis

    Sorry, no. I am not guided by racial remarks. It was clear that TM thought white people were the enemy. Otherwise his language and demeanor towards the race would have been different. And no the comment came when the two sat there staring at each other. One on their car and the other standing in the rain.

    Racism should be a thing of the past. So long as we segregate ourselves into cliques and allow certain races to use certain terms, then yes, we will continue to be a racist nation. But once you start removing the descriptive terms of color, that’s when the world can begin to move on and build into a uniformed nations of several multi-cultural backgrounds. So, no, I do not use racial terms in private or other settings. That may just be you and the other racists out there.

    And as long as you associate the south with racism, well, then you will continue to hate the other race. Remove socio-demographics and color characteristics out of your language. Racism – Racism is generally defined as actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that are based in views that see the human species to be divided into races with shared traits, abilities, or qualities, such as personality, intellect, morality, or other cultural behavioral characteristics, and especially the belief that races can be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to others, or that members of different races should be treated differently.

  • Justice Delivered

    Sudden changes in velocity cause the brain to slosh and smash against the cranium. Damage is usually below the threshold which can be detected.

    Upon death, slicing off thin sections of the brain will expose damaged areas. Both texture and color are different for dead tissue. And older injuries, where the body has had time to remove dead tissue actually are irregular holes. In one case, a brain had an oblong hole, about one inch diameter and an inch and a half long.

    All over Internet we see ignorant Trayvonites arguing that George Zimmerman just had scratches and a few band-aids were all he needed, that misses the point that brain damage was the real risk and even one blow is enough in many cases to cause serious problems, including death years later.

    Trayvon probably had no idea just how serious head smashing is, but that is no excuse. It was imperative that George stop him, and stop him he did.

  • Curtis

    The reasonable doubt happened when all injuries sustained were on GZ. It was up to the prosecution to prove the burden of doubt which they failed.

  • Curtis

    Self-defense – a person may not use deadly force unless that person is in reasonable fear of serious injury or death. The law does not state how much injury is to occur before making that call.

    Once you realize that placing your hands on someone is against the law then the quicker we can move forward. Americans have safety bubbles and when that bubble is breached, Americans become defensive. And in this matter, TM doubled-back to the scene to see just what GZ was up to. That is not stand-your-ground. That is going back to get your head wrapped up in something that is should not be.

  • Curtis

    The guy was not a nut job. He was within his rights to handle his property as the law allowed. So because your friend hopped a fence to a property that clearly had no pedestrian traffic allowed, you feel the man’s actions were not justified?

    Here where I live it is perfectly acceptable to shoot a person while he is holding your DVD player and at night time at your residence. What does that teach our youth? It teaches them to respect each other and their property so they don’t become a statistic.

    “take matters in their own hand?” Would you rather have the police show up minutes late when seconds count? You should be able to agree with me that things escalated before the arriving officer first made it to scene. You also might feel that the government is out to protect you. Do you actually think that democracy works when the people’s voice is not valued and instead officials are lobbied into a vote?

    You tell me to avoid circumstantial evidence yet you said that GZ probably got into a fight with his wife before this incident. Be careful what you say.

    I agree that two individuals encountered each other and neither backed down, ultimately leading to a bad situation. But your claim of GZ holding TM may not be the best option because GZs DNA was not found on TM which does not insinuate that GZ held TM. And I also agree that the truth lies between the two stories. Unfortunately, life hands you lemons and both stories are not always available. IS GZ paying dearly for his actions? You bet. He is millions in the hole with no way out. I believe he is headed for a self-destruct sequence but I also believe it is people who ranted and raved for a trial, received the trial, and now the same people cannot accept the fact and move on to protect further incident. Instead, we all want to dwell on the past.

    I am pretty much arguing. I have gone above and beyond to accept your comments as fact or fiction but you have made no stance toward my side. In your mind some black kid died and that is all that mattered. You may hear from me again, but probably not that much. For now, agree to disagree.

  • Curtis

    Witness #3 states she saw someone with a white shirt on top of the other person. Nobody was even wearing a visible white shirt so what is your point on John Good?

  • Curtis

    Like I said, if you want to be mad with someone, be mad at SPD and the forensics teams. They butchered the whole thing up.

    As far as GZ being released before the parents knew. Well, TMs dad did not become suspicious until the next morning when his 17 year old teen did not come home from the night before in a strange town. And during this scuffle, where was daddy? Was he on a date with his girlfriend while his son sat at home, unsupervised after being released from school? Again, don’t be mad at GZ solely. There were plenty of fingers to be pointed that night, and not all of them should be at GZ.

  • Curtis

    Why is it so important that GZ saw a specific color that night? Are you wanting him to be a racist?

    And if you can’t accept the jury’s decision then I sure hope you never get picked as a juror.

  • Curtis

    A car thief in possession of a stolen car is still a car thief. Same goes for someone who has documented evidence of making “Lean”. Once your name is cast with that characteristic, it sticks. Just like how the world tried everything possible to release GZs past history and get it to be used against him.

  • Curtis

    You are absolutely right, two people in a scuffle can be in fear for their lives at the same time. The only difference is that your TM was holding down GZ. And if he was in fear, tell me why he came back to the scene even after his friend told him to run and after he had already made it back to his residence? Does not sound fearful to me. And no, I am not afraid of black people. My adopted black daughter can back me up on that statement. What I do have fear for is people who are bigger than me. Let me guess, you still believe that 14 year old TM in a Hollister shirt is recent. Sorry to say but if you saw TM standing next to the 7-11 clerk who stood at 5’10″ you will see that TMs size was intimidating. Bringing up boxing has no merit here. You are telling me that TM is comparable to professional boxers who don’t work day jobs but instead spend all day gaining muscle.

  • Curtis

    Ever heard a criminal say, “Oh man, we better stop, the neighborhood watch is after us”?

  • Curtis

    You may feel like it is perfectly acceptable to get into scuffles in your native New York land but laying your hands on anyone around here will get yourself in hot water.

  • Curtis

    Just like how my cousin was hit in the head in 2010 and then passed away in 2012 from an undiscovered brain injury.

  • Justice Delivered

    The gated community did not lose the lawsuit, their insurance company settled it, conveniently for the Scheme Team. If they had of waited a few more days the Scheme Team would probably receive coal in their stocking.

    Limiting bogus civil lawsuits is a very important part of SYG laws, and that is why the Scheme Team has been attacking SYG law, even though it did not play a role in Zimmerman’s acquittal.

  • Justice Delivered

    1) There is no evidence that Zimmerman started the fight.

    2) Zimmerman has been acquitted, the court determining that it was self defense.

  • Justice Delivered

    “if GZ lawyer was based on who he could afforded (with out the public help) in be in jail”

    Yep, the Martin Scheme Team sure screwed up on that one. Collectively, they are not very competent, done in by unintended consequences. So many unintended consequences like $100,000 paintings.

    Zimmerman’s ability to raise money should give you some idea of just how damaging ongoing persecution of the Zimmerman family is to your cause.

  • eyemale

    GZ was the captain of the program is that relevant? the gated community lost the law suit because of GZ actions is that relevant?
    and how do you know anything about TM and who he was Day to day except for what you learned from media reports , you need to focus on the Min’s him and GZ met, you seem to being saying TM prior bad acts and the fact you determined you don’t like him or think he was a thug makes his life less worthy and you are glad he is dead , millions of teens get in trouble and do crazy things , when I was a teen I smoked weed ,stole beer , partied, had sex , thought I was tough, but not every day. and around my parents Friends I was thought of a well mannered young man , with my friends I was a bit wild , normal teen stuff , but TM had no criminal record , like I asked before are you a racist? gun nut or both? because this Trayvon ” public enemy number ” lament just isn’t true

  • eyemale

    but he didn’t even go to his doctor suggested follow ups , you mean if you just had a life threaten beating , money would be a factor to not be checked out? there is medicaid , county welware INS, familty members , I don’t know about these hell holes ER’s you talk about , but the police station or jail isn’t a fun stay and he had no idea when he being leaving , next excuse ,,, there was nothing wrong with him , you can’t predict the future , and in GZ case you can’t even say TM did the damage if there is any in the future because GZ also played football . is there any limit to your bull? or do just have a crash on GZ, or are you a racist, gun nut both?

  • Justice Delivered

    Have you ever dissected a human brain? I have, actually quite a few.

    Recent research has shown that scores or hundreds of lower force blows to the head do produce long term cumulative damage.

    Let me repeat, xrays will not show this kind of damage.

    You missed the most obvious reason that George Zimmerman would not go to the hospital unless he had to be carried in, no insurance. And another reason is not wanting to spend the night in the hell hole they call emergency rooms.

  • Justice Delivered

    “and if GZ started it , which there was no evidence”

    You are grasping at straws. Thugvon’s lack of injuries and George Zimmerman’s vivid injuries pretty much told that story.

  • eyemale

    LOL dude football players and boxers go thru years of abuse and the majority don’t have later in life effects, but at the time there is an injury it noticeable , football players don’t get up after a hard hit , they roll around on the ground , and their speech is slurred and the medical team thru the examination and medical devices ( the same thing EMT does) can diagnose a concussion, EMT tested GZ and the only thing noted was a bloody nose ( maybe broken ,, reason they wanted him to see a doctor and get a X-ray at the hospital) and his heart rate was a little high. but GZ refused the hospital because like I said before he knew he was OK and didn’t want to waste money, when a medical report could determine he wasn’t hurt that bad or had injuries consistent with a head hit against a sidewalk again and again or possibly some injuries were not current, most people who explain a beating like GZ did , go to the hospital , ready dude ” I was almost beat to death , but no hospital , no doctor , no x-rays to make sure I am ok , just take to the police station before I forget the story am about tell . because ” I have a bad memory any ways” remember that line?

  • Justice Delivered

    “there was no signs he had any life threatening effects”

    It often takes years to discover the effects. I have wondered for some time if football players or boxers start out dumb or if they end up that way from accumulated effects of blows to their head. Xrays will not show the damage, an MRI or CAT scan might.

    So if George came out of the encounter without measurable effects, then that means he shot Thugvon just in time.

  • eyemale

    OJ’s ex wife sister knew who her sister murderer was , but having money and a expert legal team goes a long way , if GZ lawyer was based on who he could afforded (with out the public help) in be in jail

  • eyemale

    and if GZ started it , which there was no evidence who started it then it harder to claim self defense , I know FL has crazy gun laws but I doubt people can start fights and then shoot them because they start losing. GZ won because of a lack of evidence who started the fight. the physical evidence , postion of the bullet and etc was after the fight started .

  • eyemale

    the interview about tossing that drunk girl word for word by another employee and witness

    “He had a temper and he became a liability this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. … It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

  • eyemale

    When he first walked outside, the Black guy was on top while they were wrestling. He could tell this because the guy on the bottom was a lighter color. The witness was looking out the window and yelling out the window telling them to stop. After the incident, he saw other people out there with flashlights. The guy who had been previously on top was lying face down in the grass. The one who had been on the bottom had his hands in the air. The guy who did the shooting said, “I shot the other guy in self defense. My gun is on the ground.”

    He didn’t have his patio door open. He could only hear the helps with all doors and windows closed. He says he couldn’t tell who was yelling for help. He thought it was the person on the ground at first because his logic says that the person on the bottom would be the one yelling for help. He says he truly couldn’t tell who was yelling help. It was too dark. He didn’t see how it started or how it ended. He only saw when they were in an altercation on the ground.

  • eyemale

    well in this case that got him fired he lost it on 4’11 skinny drunk girl , picked her and threw her against wall injuring her . no matter how many times you claim TM 1st attacked GZ there was no evidence to that fact, but since there were no witness who saw who grabbed or punch who 1st , and one of the two is dead , the man accused of murder is the only story available , zimmerman won the case based on luck , no witnesses who saw who started it , high price lawyers who were experts of creating reasonable doubt with donated money from his racist fan club and gun nuts , and loopholes in the law

  • Justice Delivered

    “trayvon’s death was because of a over zealous vigilante”

    Since it has been established that Trayvon went after and stalked and then assaulted Zimmerman, it was pure self defense.

    “TM’s prior bad acts smoking weed ,trouble in school , problems at home doesn’t change the fact ” — that assault does justify the use of deadly force. And do not forget that Thugvon had already assaulted a bus driver and that he felt he was entitled to beat a “snitch” more than once.

  • Justice Delivered

    “no TM didn’t lose big because”

    Yes he did….BECAUSE….he is dead.

  • Justice Delivered

    “Zimmerman is normally a cool guy but when he loses it he really loses it!!!”

    Anyone who is assaulted quickly loses it. Fight or flight instincts take over. Punks like Thugvon need to be taught this before someone stops them with a bullet.

  • Justice Delivered

    Trayvon’s problem is that he was allowed all the mistakes he wanted, right up until his death. If only he was disciplined for fighting all the time, for the B&E, for the assault on the bus driver, for scewing a middle school girl and getting her pregnant.

    Or how about the conspiracy to get an illegal handgun, was it Tracy who was discussing that with him?

    NWH handbook and police approval are not relevant. They do not carry force of law, they do not trump the inalienable right to self defense, and following their rules probably would have gotten Zimmerman killed. It would behoove everyone participating in neighborhood watch to be armed. It is inherently dangerous.

  • eyemale

    yeah yeah yeah GZ said TM walked up to him an assaulted him , end of story , but before this night and after there are 5 reports where 5 different people said GZ was the one doing the assaulting and being threatening , and one of the claims got him fired and had a bar full of witnesses , two of his fellow employees was quoted saying ” Zimmerman is normally a cool guy but when he loses it he really loses it!!!” your hero is and as been a bully with a bad temper most his life , a wife normally runs home to mom and dad because she scared .. get those excuses really when your hero hurts someone else . I know I have this guy pegged

  • eyemale

    the rule is backed up by the police dept , the police totally support the guide lines in the NHW handbook , another excuse for GZ, another thing GZ doesn’t have to listen to , but TM isn’t allowed mistakes . truth is if GZ did follow the rule he still be parked at the club house waiting for police , remember the NEN? that was one location mention to wait for police , another was his home , the “NEVER FOLLOW A SUSPECT” rule is written in big bold letters on the front of the handbook and on a printed form from the police dept that has the contact numbers for NEN
    what kind of person are you ? a young man is shot and killed all you can do is make excuse for the shooter , or determine tm life isn’t Worth anything because you believed he was a thug. if TM was a bad kid then so be it , but being a trouble maker and wanna-be thug doesn’t mean it ok to shoot him or his life isn’t worth anything , murder is murder even when you don’t like or respect the one killed

  • Justice Delivered

    NHW rules have NO basis in law, no one needs to follow their rules. In fact, following their rules would probably have been a fatal mistake.

    It is a fact that the Martin Scheme Team is losing this fight.

  • Justice Delivered

    Trayvon Martin was shot because he was assaulting George Zimmerman. End of story.

  • eyemale

    I get the feeling you think I am black, and no not everyone would of done what GZ did , most people follow the rules set by NHW and voiced by the police when the program is set up, we set up NHW in our neighborhood had a meeting place and two policeman explained the program along with handing out hand books, they don’t suggest guns on patrol , and never follow a suspect, you know TM parents won a law suit against the gated community? proof that GZ did not do the right thing and did not act responsibly, your excuses for GZ just go on and on , even when his past didn’t fly under the radar and he does have a criminal record and his actions cost others large sums of money, but no matter what this man does or who he involves you praise him , maybe you could benefit from waking up and realizing GZ is the lying violent thug , who can’t keep jobs, likes to push people buttons , don’t care about anyone but himself and using people like to praise him and support him so he can sit on his fat lazy back side and connect free money, and create crappy art that only his moronic fan club would buy. GZ was a loser before and after he met up with TM, and you people have made him a hero, which is an insult to all heroes, who risked their life , war heroes , fireman, policeman , and citizens who risked their life to save another

  • eyemale

    dude now you are just talking crazy, TM would of just walked home this night if it wasn’t for GZ, a lot of teenagers drive their parents crazy at times , mother’s often send their sons to their fathers as a punishment saying things like ” see if you rather live with him” knowing that their son don’t want to go, tm was no angel but get thru your head , he was just walking home from the store went GZ caused him reason to be concern, his trouble in school , the fact he smoked pot and the fact he might of had a tough guy attitude has nothing to do with the mins involved between him and GZ
    was tm killed because he was sent to his dad’s? NO
    was tm killed because he smoked weed?NO
    was tm killed because he got in trouble at school?NO
    was tm killed because he might of been a thug wanna-be?NO
    was tm killed for flashing gang signs and acting bad on his web site?NO
    was tm killed because a gun packing adult decided to follow him thru a town home complex on dark raining night and then claims the one he was following attacked him {with out one witness to that fact} so he had to shoot him? YES!!!

  • Justice Delivered

    “but you know your loved one is innocent”

    Most criminals and their families know they are innocent – - while they are guilty as hell.

  • Justice Delivered

    The truth has already been determined. What you believe is not relevant.

    Food for thought, Trayvon was the one in a foul mood. All his lies and misdeeds had been catching up with him. The school expelled him, his mother tossed him out and dad was moving him away from his friends. He was out of weed

    And then he was being watched, that was interfering with his casing more homes and he was mad at the world. That is a problem which clearly runs in his family.

  • Justice Delivered

    Hard evidence are things such as the trajectory of the bullet, George’s injuries and Trayvon’s lack of similar injuries, cell records, the 911 call and so on.

    Witnesses are not as reliable, their memories can change, so you look for correlation between physical evidence and witness statements and you create a timeline and then see how each piece of information fits the timeline.

  • eyemale

    no TM didn’t lose big because the jury considered the lesser charge,, tell you the truth I knew GZ wouldn’t be convicted , I wrote that on my blog months before the trial. but not because I thought he was innocent by because of a number of factors , it was FL where racism is very alive and well , there was no witness who saw more than two guys fighting in the dark, GZ had great lawyers who were experts , and the state had the burden of proof which by todays terms means you almost have to have a video of the act to convict , remember that if someone guns down one of your loved ones and the public funds their expert lawyer, and there isn’t anyone who saw what happen or who started it but you know your loved one is innocent

  • eyemale

    come on man you are walking and a guy drives by slows down and starts staring at you and you happen to be on the phone in what you believe is a private conversation , you mean you would never say some “blank” is checking me out whats this guy problem, by the way TM made his remark after the following started ,
    So you or someone you know never used a racial term in a private conversation, do you GZ supporters live in the real world ? TM friend bought this info out in court, meaning she didn’t think of it a bad racial thing but a normal every day term , many white people from the south still refer to black males as BOYS but not because they are racist but because it a term they grew up with and don’t mean anything insulting by it

  • eyemale

    and here another thing to consider , GZ was sent home before the parents knew their son was dead , meaning police only considered GZ story with out asking the parents ” the shooter claims your son attacked him, does this sound like something your son would do or has done in the past?” the police knew nothing about TM and only had bits and pieces of different people’s stories . if the police told me my son been shot and killed and I asked where the shooter was , and found out he was home having breakfast I would of freaked , don’t Tell me this was normal protocol, and GZ and his family didn’t have some connections ,

  • eyemale

    trayvon’s death was because of a over zealous vigilante, so save that responsibility speech for people like GZ, if TM was on GZ property then ok he can protect that any way he wants within the law , but Public side walks are matter for the police unless you see a crime in progress, HHW does not give anyone police authority it clearly says that in the hand book ” you are not police!!” you are the eyes and ears for police , and never follow a suspect . we have 1000′s of teens walking home from some where taking short cuts, having adults packing heat following them with the mind set they are criminals is a dangerous game , finding out some adult was following my kid for some unknown reason would cause me to want to pound his head because anyone would assume the person doing the following was up to no good , you GZ supporters like to make excuses for your buddy GZ, but know darn well if this you or a loved one being followed by some strange man at night you wouldn’t be ok with it , like it or not GZ actions was directly responsible for TM death, GZ acted like a man out to hurt TM and TM confronted his would-be attacker TM’s prior bad acts smoking weed ,trouble in school , problems at home doesn’t change the fact he was just walking home from 7/11 and had a right to be where his was , do you really want to live in world where a person unknown to another person becomes suspect?
    following someone might be legal but if the person who is being follow is innocent and don’t know why they are being followed what do you think they are going to assume? you think they might consider it a threat ? come on man forget what you know about GZ and TM and realize it was just two strangers , there was no good guy and bad guy just two people who didn’t know each other and both wondering and concern what the other was up to, or does this have to happen to someone you care about before you see the light, to TM GZ was his attacker a man following him and tm didn’t think following him to shake his hand or gave him a medal, use your head man , GZ acted like a man that TM should of been very concerned about and felt very threaten by and had the right to not retreat and protect himself under FL law of stand your ground

  • Justice Delivered

    “it about having a REP being feared”

    Which is what Thugvon did, and died for.

    And he was NOT just walking home, he turned around and went a considerable distance to meet his destiny.

  • Justice Delivered

    It is not unusual for criminals to fly under the radar for some time. That does not make them any less a criminal. If Thugvon had survived that night he would have been charged, likely as an adult.

    Your time would be better spent working with black youth. Teach them to read. Help them with their home work. It is never to late to start.

    Give Trayvon’s death a use, his example if presented properly could serve to discourage others from making the same mistakes.

    Stop blaming George Zimmerman, virtually anyone would have done the same in his situation. Stop blaming others for your own cultural problems, instead work with others to turn what is a bad situation around.

    And last, reject mob think and start actually reasoning. I would like to believe that YOU can make lemon aid our of lemons if you really want to.

  • eyemale

    and no criminal record , meaning he was playing the thug life , but wasn’t a thug , why is so important to GZ supporters to make out that TM was public enemy number one? and ignore GZ criminal past, even after the trial GZ is pulled for speeding , GZ supporters say so what, cheats on his wife , so what? calls to 911 about threats he made , no biggie , how about when he worked in security at a club and was fired for tossing a drunk girl against a wall causing her injuries? the never ending excuses you supporters make for this guy is unbelievable , the adult you make excuse for , the 17 year old gets none ,

  • eyemale

    a ground and pound LOL sounds like John was a wrestling fan trying make what he saw exciting , but heres the deal the way I see it, GZ was a neighbor and TM was dead and nothing could bring him back so why ruin GZ life when he wasn’t sure what he saw, he couldn’t even make out colors beyond light and dark and never said he saw the guy on top beating the heck out of the guy on the bottom, remember GZ was fighting for his life so why didn’t John see wild punches, head pounding grabbing and more important didn’t hear any blows landing , a head pounded on a side walk makes a sound and is felt (vibrates) many feet away, because there was no terrible beating , just a story told by the killer who knew he faced prison with out good self defense story

  • eyemale

    I think your passion for this guy is misleading you, there might some cult that is into this type thing years from now , but considered a true artist isn’t going to happen, now if he was found guilty for murder and this was his prison art maybe it would have a value in the future , but gz days of being in the spot light and considered important are numbered , headlines are always changing and some day there will the new big topic that causes nation wide conflict that everyone is talking about, and GZ attempts for media attention will be ignored , and he will fade away,

  • eyemale

    look , I been thru this , my friend and I use to take a short cut by hopping a wall back when we were 16 , one day I went over and then my friend started then I heard him yell , some man grabbed him on the other side throwing him to the ground breaking his arm, I hopped over and grabbed a coke bottle from a trash can then the man pulled a gun, and yelled up to a window for his wife to call police, he though we were up to no good and we though he was some nut , this is what happens when untrained citizens take matters in their own hands , people can get hurt or killed , GZ just saw a person he determined was acting strange , if you remember when asked what race this person was his answer was ” he LOOKS black” like he wasn’t sure , so there goes the fits the description theory , GZ saw no crime in progress, but follows him which he never done before , so why tonight? maybe because him and his wife was fighting and she left him and he was steaming about that, but any ways he knows following a suspect is not suggested and is written in big letters in the NHW handbook as a no no, but this teen needed to be caught,,, why? my theory is GZ demeanor this night was angry and ticked off, and TM was the one he wanted to take it out on, these AH’s always get away , blanking punks , and the assault this night came from a ticked off GZ who I believe tried to grab and hold TM for police when TM wanted to know why he was being followed , I believe there is GZ story , TM’s story if he would of lived and the truth is some where in the middle ,

  • eyemale

    or like testified at the trial the drink and candy was for his step brother, you can’t prove things based on circumstantial evidence, i am sure these two items have been bought to not make lean many times, boys as young as 3-4 years old love guns , that the gun mentality country we live in and this was FL. but boy/teens and guns is like peanut butter and jelly, you want to change the condition you have to allow new laws, but gun owners don’t like change, and the keep the gun mentality alive

  • eyemale

    I am telling like it is and how I see it just like you, the jury didn’t convict because of a lack of evidence, no witness who saw the 1st punch or the gun shot, just bits and pieces of a guy on top of another ,

  • eyemale

    hard evidence would be a witness , a photo or video , which one or all do you have ,

  • eyemale

    if there is two people in a fight why can’t both be in fear for their life ? downward motion means nothing, tm could been holding gz arms or hands in self defense, no one saw punching or head pounding, can ask something? do black people scare you? is that why you assume TM was the bigger stronger brute? because he was a skinny high school teen , 5’11 and 158 pounds , in the world of boxing TM was the light/feather weight and GZ was a heavy weight, come on man how bad could tm beat GZ? really?

  • eyemale

    shooting someone in self defense doesn’t work that way, your one finger theory goes out the window , it becomes a matter of reasonable concern of life when a gun comes into play,, two guys pushing each other around doesn’t justify murder , also if you are a factor why the fight took place your can’t shoot the guy just because you are losing, GZ could of been a threat to TM because what type of people follow other people? it normally to cause harm , rob , mug or attack, GZ had time to tell TM who he was and why he was following him , instead he said ” I don’t have a problem” it was night time raining and TM was in strange area, he had to be concern who this man was and what he wanted, AND GZ did nothing or said nothing to calm the situation, so it left TM with only one thought, “this guy is some freak” even during the fight GZ could of yelled ” I am NH watch” I don’t believe for one second TM started it, or was beating GZ so bad GZ had to shoot him.

  • Justice Delivered

    Eyemale, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. You need to stop making crap up, it did not work with the jury, and it will not work with the rest of us.

  • Justice Delivered

    GZ did not break the law in any way. Thugvon did, and not just that night.

    It is a shame that his upbringing set him up for this, but blame for that belongs to his parents and a community attitude problem.

    eyemale, you need to confront that YOU and others like you are in part responsible for Trayvon’s fate. Until you take personal responsibility, young black males will continue to kill and be killed. That is a tragedy thousands, no tens of thousands times worse than Trayvon’s death.

  • Justice Delivered

    “This makes me believe you did not see the trial or from discovery”

    Or, dullmale is a member of the Martin Scheme Team’s propaganda group.

  • Justice Delivered

    We still have hard evidence which does tell us who started the fight.

  • Justice Delivered

    Your arguments were considered and dismissed as not relevant by the jury. Trayvon lost big, you and others like you have also lost big. You are like dogs howling at the wind.

  • Justice Delivered

    All art, music, books are judged over time. I think that Zimmerman’s art, the messages it conveys, will stand the test of time.

    The reason is that he is telling a story about how petty, vicious and small minded a large group of people became and how ultimately this cost them most of the special privileges they had received fifty years earlier.

  • eyemale

    Manson sold songs that was believed valuable, but nope they were wrong, because a new generation comes along and doesn’t see the man ,his fame or cares about his history , all they see is the art it self , and the art it self isn’t going to be worth any thing as time goes on and GZ drops out of sight, because it isn’t art , it isn’t any good , it just house paint painted over a copied photo. in the 70′s there were 1000′s of so called artist that were called creative because they made something out of trash , or glued two sticks together and people prasied them and bought their art thinking because the artist made such an impact back then it going to be worth so much more in the future , but no it was just a sign of the times . different generation and different taste .

  • Curtis

    Cool. You are the toughest and smartest man alive. I get it. But placing a single finger of yours on my body is considered assault. You have no business touching me. The same goes for me. I have no right to touch you regardless. If you hit me with a pillow, you better believe I will come back at you with everything I have just to keep the distance between us. You need to understand that your experience in fights is not the same as me, you, your brother, mother, uncle, whoever. As soon as one finger is laid on me, all bets are off. One “blow” or 20, either way, your hands were placed without warrant. And until you can figure that out, try your, fight now and deal with consequences later, attitude elsewhere.

  • Curtis

    And by your own statement, would you agree that a “downward motion” while sitting on top of GZ is considered part of fighting? And would you at least consider the idea that at this point GZ feared for his life? If TM felt his life was threatened, do you at least consider that if GZ had not shot out that we would be seeing a different outcome of who ended up deceased that night?

    I work in a field where we assist those with mobility disabilities and brain injuries are one of the most common and important to understand. It takes very little effort to damage the brain. If you want to see how someone is on a daily basis with a head injury, speak to any professional fighter with being punch drunk. Mohammed Ali is a prime example.

  • eyemale

    dude I been in enough fights to know a man knocked cold or had his head pounded so hard he almost loses consciousness doesn’t pass an alertness test , you ever watch boxing? the man knocked to ground who can’t answer a simple question is called out , when they start to stand they fall, or walk like they are drunk , GZ show no signs of this condition . he refused medical treatment , EMT released him based on the fact there were no concerning factors , in other words it appeared he suffered no effects or show any signs abnormity..adrenaline can’t cover up head trauma . he went to his doctor the next day based on a suggestion from work to get checked out before returning, and even then didn’t take his doctor advise about getting an x-ray. because why waste money went he knew he was ok. GZ was in a every day fight and there was no signs he had any life threatening effects or injuries than indicated he was beat that badly, he just plain wimped out.

  • Curtis

    Again, you are not telling the whole story.

    Prosecution asked about “blows.” A blow in this case would be considered a punch. GZ even said he was getting hit but not necessarily punched as if TM was pushing his head towards the concrete. The only punch that he spoke of was the one that disoriented him. Now when the defense asked him about was he on top MMA-style the answer was yes. And when defense continued to pry more they asked if he[Good] was familiar with “ground and pound” and the answer was yes. And was TM performing “ground and pound” and the answer was yes. Not in exact words but Good did suggest that TM was forcing some part of himself onto GZ and that the only injuries were on GZ by use of “ground and pound”. So how did all of those injuries get there? The grass? A hoodie? A can of watermelon drink? Skittles? GZs own hand? Use common sense and you will then see who had the upper hand up until that fateful shot.

  • Curtis

    YES, YES, YES. Before you spit out garbage, check the transcripts. This came directly from the transcripts when John Goode was on the stand:

    “O’MARA: And what you saw was the person on top in an MMA-style straddle position. Correct?
    GOOD: Correct.

    O’MARA: That was further described, was it not, as being ground and pound?

    GOOD: Correct.

    O’MARA: What is ground and pound?

    GOOD: That’s usually what takes place in that type of position.

    O’MARA: Sure, in MMA, mixed martial arts.

    GOOD: Correct.

    O’MARA: You knew it enough to give technology like ground and pound to what you saw?

    GOOD: It was the first thing that came to my mind, yes.

    O’MARA: That the person on top was grounding and pounding the person on the bottom.

    GOOD: That’s what it looked like, yes.

    O’MARA: So explain what ground and pound is in your mind.

    GOOD: The person on top being able to punch the person on the bottom, but the person on the bottom also has a chance to get out or punch the person on top. It’s back and forth.”

  • Curtis

    Again, do you understand the effects of adrenaline? That is the very thing that keeps you going during a fight/incident so fatigue is not as drained as you wanted the case to be. Nobody said GZ had “serious” head injuries. A scratch is an injury and a scratch is assault whether you think it is or not. And basing your personal experience of watching someone else fight has no claim here. If we want to get into a personal discussion about head injuries…my cousin was hit in the head about 3 years ago and died 2 years after because of the injuries sustained in his brain. That is why it is so important to understand that no matter what, fighting is not the answer. You have no idea of the other person’s intentions and so there is no clue as to how long one might suffer continuous hits to the dome. Seriously, just because you have experienced differently, does not mean the same will happen for others. And until you realize that a fight is not just a fight, then stay the uneducated person you are and go bang you head up against a wall until you do.

    GZ was absolutely attacked. When someone travels 100 yards back to come see you then that is instigation.

    “a young man died this night because of GZ over zealous wanna-be cop fantasy.” Pure speculation and severely opinionated.

  • eyemale

    NO NO NO John said the position of the body” one on top of the other “was were the MMA style came into the picture , the state asked him directly if he saw any blows and his answer was no , all he saw from his position was the guy on the top making downward motions , that what he said at the trial which I recorded and just watch his testimony during the state rebuttal , he clearly said he saw no punches.

  • eyemale

    That what I said he was wore out because he was in a fight , but after EMT tests his alertness, his speech ability he tested within normal range , people with serious head injuries don’t test within normal range , they are confused , glassy eyed , don’t walk straight and etc . the most serious injury was a possible broken nose which there was no x-ray of.
    at a party years ago I saw fight where one guy pounded another guy head on the ground , that guy did not stand up , he was bleeding from ear, he couldn’t answer the paramedic questions and was rushed to the hospital where he spend a week recovering. and lost hearing in one ear for 8 months . GZ had a few boo boo’s indicating he was in a fight , not a life threating fight , just a fight., a fight he was an equal parter to , a fight based on fear and concern he caused to someone else , GZ wasn’t an innocent bystander attacked out of the blew , GZ pushed someone buttons and when that person reacted to his intimation, GZ shot him when he started to lose the fight . there was no injuries that were life threatening, only a man who bit off more than he could chew because of his dreams of being a cop but had no ability to be a cop. old saying ” if you want nothing , then don’t start nothing” a young man died this night because of GZ over zealous wanna-be cop fantasy.

  • Curtis

    And for the record, John did testify that he saw TM punching GZ. That’s where the “MMA-style” comment originated from. This makes me believe you did not see the trial or from discovery and are only pulling information from what you have heard as well as personal emotions.

  • Curtis

    You do understand the difference between losing consciousness and feeling worn out, don’t you? You do also understand what adrenaline is, don’t you? If you do, then why would you say that GZ did not appear to have a fight based on these actions? And you do understand that he was treated by medical assistance but failed to go further from the scene to the emergency room? Many people do not seek medical assistance for many reasons. One which being costs and another is based on personal feelings. I for one was in a very serious car accident and not once did I ask the EMTs on-scene to check me out nor did I go to the hospital that day. However, what I did do was visit my personal doctor the next day just to make sure everything was OK. And guess what? GZ went to his personal doctor the next day as well. Are these two stories different? Nope.

    That’s awesome that your friends dealt with illegal firearms when you grew up in NY. That is the exact reason why NY is one of the most restrictive states in regards to firearms. Makes me appreciate my red state that much more. In fact, I hold federal firearm licenses which allow me to possess and deal in firearms the legal way.

    And watch and report was exactly what GZ did. He saw, he reported and the dispatch asked to know more if TM did more. TM took off running and GZ went to “watch” where he went. Growing up in NY with the life of crime that you say you had, then you should know the court system. And you should know that the law is only as good as it is written. Words have to be specifically defined so not for any confusion in the future.

    You are right again, that both parties had every opportunity and right to “stand your ground” but what you fail to see is that TM did not “stand his ground.” He was already at the safety of his home when he returned. That makes him legally the instigator. You would be screaming the same thing about GZ just because he “followed” TM.

  • eyemale

    the man claiming he was losing consciousness , stood up seconds after the shooting , walked around and made a cell call . the 1st guy who saw him said he looked wore out , but once again he was in a fight , and was out of shape and min’s before was pumped up , walking and maybe running , people with serious injuries do not stand up , they don’t test in normal range , and they receive medical treatment .

    let me explain my history I grew up and went to school in the south bronx I now live in queens , I didn’t have an illegal gun but many of my friends did this is part of the cool bad “A” stuff high school males are into . it about having a REP being feared , being thought of as cool and tough. the teen years I consider the time to make mistakes , because in adulthood things become a lot more serious , so what we have is a normal teenager thinking he is tough , bad and cool… who knew some guy was following him , not knowing if this guy meant him harm and TM wanted to know what his problem was , and from there NO ONE knows what happen .that lead to a fight. no matter how bad you make out TM to be the fact of the matter is , he was just walking home from the store, and GZ intimidated him by following him . that why police ask NHW to just watch and report.

  • Curtis

    And for the record, do I believe TM did not get the best of care from the SPD that night? You better believe it. In my opinion all homicides should be investigated well-beyond what was done that night. Do I believe that the individuals and organizations handling the evidence failed to follow procedure in the 12+ months after the incident? You bet I do. So if you are mad at anyone of this fateful night, then be mad at the system and not the accused. Change the system if you feel it did not provide “justice”, I mean incarceration.

  • Curtis

    You are correct to say that TM had just as much right to confront GZ as GZ supposedly did with TM. But your claim that GZ attacked/confronted first is wrong. The two saw each other at first and nothing more. TM stood there staring at GZ and GZ sat there staring at TM. The differences being TM was telling his phone recipient that some [racial slur] is staring at me and GZ told the officials who he called to handle the request that TM was reaching into his pants as if he had something tucked in his waistband.

    Why do TM supporters always assume I believe GZs story? I lay out facts that were presented in court and that makes me a believer of GZ? When did I ever say I believed GZs story? The only thing I can definitely say is that I watched the case from 2013 all the way until now and I heard numerous stories and none in court were of GZ. That is why I continue to say that two headstrong individuals encountered each other and neither backed down. Just as much blame on the deceased as there was with the living.

    You comment about a boxing match and who had the most injuries. There is validity there but a boxing match is never 100% toward one boxer meaning there would be evidence that GZ had attacked or restrained TM. No GZ evidence was found on TM and no evidence was found on GZ other than the injuries that were consistent with the claim. Again, look at evidence, remove personal opinions/emotions, and you can easily put pieces together.

    You are wrong that GZ followed TM from one end to the other. Have you looked at the map as well as the path each person was said to have traveled? The front entrance is somewhat closer to the point of incident and the rear entrance is near the father’s girlfriend’s house. So, if GZ followed Trayvon to the other side then that would place both TM and GZ at the father’s girlfriend’s house. Or are you going off of the dispatch call when GZ said he[TM] was running towards the rear entrance? That does not mean either person made it that far.

    Again, I don’t believe GZ s story and I don’t believe prosecution’s story. What I do believe is, is the countless pages of evidence and many people that took the stand during trial who provided logical evidence. Not here say. I believe Witness #9[TMs friend on the phone at the scene]. I believe it when she said TM was already home. I believe her story about TM immediately casting racial slurs before knowing GZ. So far, I beleiev the star witness more than I do GZ and she did not help TMs stance one bit.

    You talk about me not knowing TM. Do you know him? Do you know GZ or do you know the railroaded GZ? Whether he was guilty or innocent, his life was turned around by the media/prosecution and not the case in its entirety.

    You say boxing is/was GZs hobby. Last I heard he took MMA training to lose weight and according to the trainer who took the stand, GZ was horrible and soft at fighting. So when was it that GZ took boxing as a hobby? Or are you just repeating the media?

    Please provide factual evidence of your claims next time.

  • eyemale

    the law in FL says the threaten doesn’t have to retreat. meaning if GZ can go looking for TM , then TM can go looking for GZ. TM doesn’t have to run home and hide , he has a right to confront the man following him and ask why he is being followed . the problem is you believe GZ story and won’t accept any other possibilities . you believe TM walked up to GZ with intent to assault him .. You can’t based on injuries who started the fight , GZ could of threw a punch and missed , GZ could of attempted to grab TM and TM protected himself. bottom line you can’t tune in a 15 round boxing match at the 5th round and know who got in the 1st punch . injuries only tell you who got in the most punches and can’t determine who threw the 1st punch.

    GZ followed TM before the clubhouse (front entrance) to the back , I considered that followed TM from one end of the complex to the other

    debating people like you is pointless , you never seen TM alive , never had a chance to judge his character, you just took stuff reported from the media and determined he was gang banging thug while at the same time ignoring the trouble GZ has been in and making excuse for it .

    so lets stop the dance, you believe GZ and I don’t , no reason to drag this on , altho GZ has agreed to celebrity boxing airing march 1st claiming he will take on anyone , not bad for a guy his lawyers and trainer claimed was a weak girly man who had no chance against a skinny 17 year old high school teen. GZ also states he getting back in the hobby ( meaning boxing) that he loves ( that he was involved in before that Feb night) So now GZ is a fighter and with training.. sorry but you beloved GZ is full of it and he did get away with murder ,

  • Curtis

    So in high school you dealt with black market firearms? Did your friends? If so, then our education systems and parents have failed us.

    Absolutely, I would in fact pull your school records and I will tell you why. Prosecution, tabloids, media, and TM supporters quickly cast GZ as a racially motivated killer and defamed his character. So long as prosecution was playing the defamation character game, defense should have every right to counter their claim. Don’t think for a minute that if you reported someone to the IRS for tax fraud that the IRS won’t check on your status as well. Why do you think police check multiple IDs of a group of people? It’s so they can see who/what they are dealing with. Prosecution quickly jumped on GZs back about his grades in school. Why not TM?

    You are right to say that the people in the community entered GZs life. Absolutely. But do you know the difference? One was not there because he was a trouble-maker and mom could no longer get him under control. Why send your son to your dad’s girlfriend’s house if the matter was not bad? The father did not even live there.

    You may be right to say that Trayvon was doing nothing wrong. But what you fail to understand is the term suspicious. It does not mean being a criminal. According to thefreedictionary.com the term means nothing more than, “arousing or apt to arouse suspicion.” Take it a step further and define suspicion. Which means, “the act of suspecting something, especially something wrong, on little evidence or without proof.” Take a special attention to “something wrong” as well as with “little evidence or without proof.” That night it was raining. A person standing in the rain with no general motive of direction or to exit the rain is suspicious. Add that to the fact of GZs claim to the dispatcher about TM looking like he was on drugs or something. That is evidence enough to raise suspicions whether he is black, white, purple, green, etc. Add that to the fact that marijuana is illegal in FL and you might have yourself someone who is on drugs. Add that to the fact that a portion of the complex’s fence was not constructed which allowed TM to enter the complex through an unconventional way and you have something that is considered suspicious. Add that to the fact that TM appeared to be reaching into his pocket as if to intimidate GZ (later to be proven no weapon found). But acting like you have a weapon or not, the scare was on both ends. Or was he trying to hold up his pants and because it was dark and rainy, GZ could not see TMs intentions. If his pants did not adjustment, then perhaps we can teach our children about the proper use of clothing as well as how you conduct yourself in public or around society. When I grew up I was taught to never walk with my hands in my pockets for the sole reason of raising suspicion as if I had something to hide. Why do you think officers want to see everyone’s hands at all times? Because you have no idea of what another person’s intentions were that night.

    People feel that a whoopin’ did not justify use of deadly force. I can tell you for a fact that again, nobody knows another person’s intentions. How long must a person be smacked around before losing consciousness and leaving your life in the hands of the person who just knocked you out? People with fighting abilities like this case need to understand that i is in no way acceptable to put your hands on another person unless the loss of life or serious bodily harm is evident. The sooner these people understand that, the less likely a situation like this will happen. Most states have the right to conceal carry and citizens are not leaving their lives up to be protected by officers. When seconds count, call an officer because they will be there at least a few minutes after. People are generally note-takers and investigators. They generally are not close enough to alleviate the situation.

  • Curtis

    Whether you want to understand physics and whatnot, the matter of who “started” the fight is easily shown with consistency of injuries and the statements of others. In no way should TM have gone back to the scene after already arriving somewhat safely at the place of residence. He returned to the scene meaning he was the instigator.

    You are wrong to say for a fact that GZ walked from one end of the complex to the other. No evidence shows or even points to that claim.

    I am not disagreeing with you that stories were not complete truth in trial. What trial ever goes 100% truthful? Prosecution had some whoppers in there so let’s not focus on the he said, she said.

    You are right that there was a lack of evidence. That means that prosecution had nothing to begin with and they knew it. The only reason they pursued is due to social pressure.

    But in the end, the family wanted justice and a trial. They got their trial. But I suspect that the family and followers were confused with is the justice part. In their mind, justice means convicting someone and not justice as in let the courts handle the situation. Leave personal emotion out and you will see that the laws are pretty straightforward.

  • eyemale

    what I saw is a high school teen who wasn’t much different than myself and most my friends . we thought we were bad and tough , we acting up in school , I even got caught shop lifting once and smoked a little weed . but now I am a law abiding citizen tax payer and own a limo business with 12 employees , if I ran into GZ and was shot to death would you drag my school reports in to it as proof I was a thug and had to be the one who started it .

    many people for many reasons moved in to those town homes that simple fact means they entered GZ life and becomes GZ business? , the fact is TM’s being suspended had nothing to do with GZ ..GZ and only GZ concerned himself with TM, even suspended teens have a right to walk home after going to the store . TM wouldn’t of even noticed GZ if it wasn’t for the fact of GZ following him. spewing how bad TM was doesn’t change the fact he was walking where he had a right to be , and was doing nothing wrong. GZ brought this to ahead , TM had no idea who this guy was or what he wanted and far as I am concerned protected himslf against what he believed was some freak.

  • eyemale

    the only person who had the best view was john and he said it was dark and saw a guy on top ( he believed was TM) but saw no blows or heard anything that sounded like someone hitting or punching, all he saw was the guy on top making downward motions . being on top only proves the guy on top is winning, doesn’t prove the guy on top started the fight .
    the only eye witness who knows want happen from beginning to end was GZ and TM and TM is dead . far as injuries a person gets injuries went they fight , but that also doesn’t prove who started the fight.. what we do know is GZ followed this teen from one end of the complex to other so he more than passing interest that he be captured .
    the story about being suckered punched while he was looking for his cell phone is bull , what person looks away from a angry yelling person stand 2 feet in front of them that they expressed fear of just min’s before .. GZ did not tell the whole truth , he told a story how he was the victim like he has done every time before and after this night . it wasn’t Evidence that got him a not guilty , it was a lack of Evidence because there were no witness who saw what happen from beginning to end . even some members of the jury have said he got away with murder ,

  • Curtis

    Nobody has mentioned that this same thing happened with Obama’s face and was used for someone else’s profit. That artist lost.

  • Curtis

    Not to mention he was attempting to buy firearms through the black market and his affinity to fighting. His cell phone records paint a dark childhood that backs up the words that are spoken about his criminal behavior. What it does not back up is the old picture of young TM in a Hollister shirt.

    People argue that teens now act this way. I agree to some point. I was a troubled youth but nowhere near the way TM was headed. My father had firearms and I respected every one of them as well as my father’s commands. Never bought my first pistol until I was 28, not 17. And I bought mine legitimately through a FFL passing all background checks.

    I did experiment with weed but who cares, we at least have 13 or more states legalizing it for whatever their reasons. Just shows the times are changing. But in the State of Florida, weed is illegal and residents have to abide by the rules. So if someone saw you seeking some burritos looking to fight your munchies and that concerned citizen felt you looked like you were on drugs, then you have to deal with the consequences.

    If the media and TM supporters feel that TM was just at the store to get himself some candy and a drink for a snack, then you really have to sit back and think about it. A cold drink that was bought 45 minutes before the incident is no longer a cold drink. A bag of candy that was unopened in 45 minutes and an unopened warm drink just makes me want to believe he was collecting ingredients and not a snack. Add that to the records on TMs phone about him making “Lean” and now you have supporting evidence. Too bad the cell phone pics were not entered into the trial. I suspect that is why the Martin’s have not filed a civil suit against GZ. Because in a civil trial, you better believe defamation of character and ALL evidence will be supported. The Martin’s probably knew their child was not the best apple in the basket and they knew he had evidence to paint his past as such and that is why no civil suit has been filed. But at this point, that is speculation.

  • Curtis

    When did GZ threaten people Online? If you are referring to him telling the AP that he will sue them, well, that is legal.

  • Curtis

    There were countless witnesses that night who testified in court about what they saw. And your mentioning of GZ grabbing TMs hoodie and dragging him 3 townhomes down was not one of them.

    You want evidence? Evidence showed TM was on top of GZ and hitting him repeatedly. Did it happen over TM starting it or GZ starting it? Don’t know. But what is evident is that TM had the upper hand the whole time in size, experience, mentality, and by the fact he had no grass stains on his back. Not to mention that TM traveled back about 100 yards to see just what GZ what up to.

    Do I agree with how GZ handled the situation that night? No, I do not. Do I agree with how TM handled the situation that night/ No, I do not. Both were headstrong and both did not identify themselves. But that is common when people are scared.

  • Curtis

    Your comments are full of flaws and what seems to be personal emotion. So let’s dissect and answer your concerns.

    You said no one knows Trayvon other than what has been reported after the incident. Wrong. There has been plenty that has been reported prior to the incident. Look at his school record. Look at his cell phone records. Look at his friends. You will see one common thing. All were extremely spotty and full of criminal behavior.

    You mentioned that it was GZ who entered Travon’s life. Wrong again. Had Trayvon not been suspended from school, the two probably would never had met. It was Trayvon walking home with 66% of the ingredients for a drugged-cocktail that he was proven to be associated with at prior incidents.

    You stated that GZ couldn’t have just called the police and then left it up to them but instead followed him. Again, you are wrong and only using what has been spat at you in the media and probably friends/family. If you would listen to the tapes, you will clearly hear the dispatch tell GZ to let them know if TM did anything else. What does GZ do? He exits his vehicle to see where TM ran to. At that point dispatch notices he is following and tells him that he “should not do that.” It is speculation how far GZ went after that but I can tell you for a fact, the same girl that was on the phone with TM at that time was also the same person who testified that TM was already near his father’s house when he turned back to approach GZ. Meaning he was near the safety of his dad’d girlfriend’s house which was over 100 yards away if I am not mistaken. You have to understand that GZ was sitting in his car watching TM when TM told his friend that some [racial slur] was watching him. At that point, TM ran. Because the two never uttered one word to the other, GZ felt that anyone running away is even more suspicious.

    You speak of his fanclub buying his artwork. Well, I would almost bet my paycheck that you don’t seem to know much about investments. Art is generally not valuable unless it has a high-profile name attached to it or the artist is dead. In this case, the former is the deal. I don’t think someone on GZs fanclub list was the buyer. I bet it is an investor thinking that the very first edition of GZs artistic career directly after his trial would sure fetch a large price sometime down the road.

  • eyemale

    OH forensic evidence,big words , but forensic evidence like what ? that GZ was in a fight ? we know that, what we don’t know is how the fight started , you keep saying TM assaulted GZ , but what proof do you have?

    based on GZ’s story he was knocked down near the “T” but some how TM body ended up farer down “almost 3 town homes” from the “T” this suggests to me there was a struggle, it almost a possibility that GZ grabbed TM’s hoodie and TM started to back up and that how they ended up on the ground together farer down from the “T”.. you GZ supporters keep talking about evidence, but the only evidence there is …GZ was in a fight , and not one piece of evidence who started it .. haven’t we learned this is GZ M.O? someone calls the police on him , and he has a different story.. 2 charges of resisting arrest ( one with violence) and three different women claiming he threaten them. doesn’t matter that all charges were dropped , or reduced , only that there were charges in the 1st place .

  • Justice Delivered

    “you believe GZ word for word ,and I don’t”

    I believe the forensic evidence, and the sum total of the evidence does tell us all we need to know.

    Trayvon was not afraid of Zimmerman, because if he was he would not have sought Zimmerman out and assaulted him.

    Trayvon is not the first teen to do something stupid leading to their own or others maiming or death. Assault is stupid, and assaulting someone who is armed is suicide. When someone is assaulting another person the victims are not thinking about race, all they are thinking about is stopping the assault. Most teens mistakes are not about repeatedly assaulting others, especially adults.

    As to Zimmerman’s art, the value of his art is determined by free market forces. The market has already spoken. It is people like you who made this happen.

  • eyemale

    No one knows anything about TM except what been reported after his death,no one saw him alive and based their judgments on his character. TM could of been a well mannered young man who had a wild side like 1000′s of teens his age . many teens get in trouble in school , act up and still become law abiding citizens.
    but people like you need to make TM life seem meaningless , that he was a worthless no body on his way to a life of crime, you fail to realize that it was GZ who entered TM life and not the other way around , TM just was walking home when GZ decided he had a problem with TM being in his neighborhood ..TM wasn’t concern about GZ until GZ gave TM cause for concern.. GZ couldn’t simply call police and report this strange person and let police handle it , NO NO NO he had to slowly follow behind him ,
    then after expressing fear about TM what does GZ do? he gets out of his truck and runs in the same direction as TM to almost say ” that right I am following you” most people in TM position would of run home , but TM being more of man than GZ will ever be , walked up to GZ and asked what his problem was . from there all we know is a story from a man who shot and killed the only other person who knew what happen.. and that difference between you and me , you believe GZ word for word ,and I don’t ,
    the only people biding on his so called art is his fan club, no serious art collector would ever consider GZ’s work as art. and in time after his fame dies down these paintings won’t be worth the cost of the paint used to color over a stolen copy of someone else’s work and property.
    now feel free to make corrections to my spelling and grammar errors ,

  • Curtis

    I studied the case since day 1. Probably read 400+ opinionated articles as well as dug up the case documents and read them. Read up on the past of both individuals and then watched the entire trial Online while I sat at my desk at work. There was probably less than 20 minutes that I did not see or hear. From the evidence and not emotions that were in the court, I can tell you I was on the fence the whole time. Obviously, prosecution railroaded GZ into a race battle but I did take both sides of the debate with a grain of salt. In the end, the jury sided (as did I) and we should all move on. Teach our children to respect elders instead of automatically assuming they are creepy and teach our elders to respect the privacy of our youth.

  • Justice Delivered

    I just voted you up.

    We are dealing with people who have minimal analytical reasoning skills. Most have only listened to Trayvonite propaganda. They thing that Trayvon was a 12 year wearing a Hollister shirt.

    They either have not read and study the evidence, or they lack the ability to do so.

    And, above all else, they feel entitled. Lots of raw emotion and damn the facts.

  • eyemale

    really a grammar reply? does that make you feel empowered? because most people consider you grammar police as clowns who can’t debate the topic so make comments about people’s spelling and grammar short comings ..

  • Justice Delivered

    I hope that English is your second language, either that or you are a product in some inner-city school.

    I like to see people rise above adversity, race is not the issue.

    I dislike PR hacks and media campaigns, especially when their purpose is to subvert due process and justice.

    I do not see Zimmerman as a hero, I do see him as someone who at least tries to do good things. We all have flaws, but on balance I think that before and after Thugvon, that George is going to find his way and be a credit to humanity.

    George does have talent, it is not fully developed, but it seems pretty clear that he is trying.

    Lets be very clear, I think that the shooting was justified, not because of race, rather because of what Trayvon was doing.

    You ooze pettiness and envy and as long as you and others do so you are creating George’s success.

    I think that Trayvon was a victim of poor parenting and culture, people like you should be investing effort into changing this. How about following George’s example and tutoring children? That would make a difference.

  • Curtis

    I don’t understand how I asked a question and my comment got a thumbs down. I suppose it was BrandonKay.

  • Curtis

    Like I said earlier, whether Vanilla Ice stole the music or not, he would have lost in court anyway.

  • Curtis

    Whether you took a story and made monetary gain or not, ethics and morality issues are to be looked at. Just because taking your story and making your own off of it does not mean it is right. You took characters from a story that did not belong to you. Did you credit the author? If so, you have now given claim to the author and respected their rights. Even if you intended to show your friends or not. Now if you pirate a video for your own personal gain, according to your argument, is perfectly OK so long as you don’t profit from it.

    But I am completely on board with your argument that as an artist, we encourage new concepts and ideas that are built from our own visions and thoughts. But you have to respect the author and give credit when it is due.

  • eyemale

    Why do you care if GZ is doing pretty well ,who he to you ? and any money he had made is because of people like you who have made him some kind of hero.. 1000′s of kids go to bed hungry but lets support GZ. lets buy his no talent art , lets write songs about him . the guy was a bum who went from job to job and because he shot and kill a black teenager you have made him some kind of God that you have defend over and over and over .isn’t it time that GZ 15 min’s be over ? the guy is most likely laughing at all you suckers , ” hey look I paint a copied picture blue and make 1000′s” LOL LOL LOL…

  • Justice Delivered

    “time this loser was cut down to size.. let one his supporters hire him if he needs money,”

    Under performers, the whole Martin Scheme Team. In spite of two years and their international smear campaign, their very best efforts, George Zimmerman is making a comeback.

    It looks like George is doing pretty well making money now, but if that is not enough he has shown the ability to raise large amounts of money.

  • Justice Delivered

    Trayvon encouraged him with each blow. He demanded complete attention.

  • Justice Delivered

    We know that Thugvon was a thief and tried to kill Zimmerman.

  • George Linard

    You need to prove the photo was used exclusively in creating the painting. No way to do that. Too many other images out there just like it from different sources and media.

  • Justice Delivered

    A DJ would not be in a venue friendly to AP and once it was brought AP would be facing an uphill fight to change it. One reason is that they have a physical presence all over the country. It seems to me that you suffer the same kind of overconfidence which did Trayvon in.

  • Justice Delivered

    Are you telling me that AP can do more damage than the full force of the state?

    If AP brings this case and lose, even if it is by proxy they are in really deep shit.

    It would not be the first time that a big bad ass corporation shot themselves in the foot.

    And, the value will be determined based on their existing sales of this or similar images, another problem that they may not have considered.

  • Justice Delivered

    You simply do not know what you are talking about.

  • Justice Delivered

    Copyright does not produce the same social value as things like MRI, the LASER, and so on. All it does is shift money from one pocket to another. Most certainly the current term is far beyond what is necessary to give incentive to produce.

    Take AP’s picture as an example, first more than one party captured it and second, no one would really care rather it was taken or not.

  • Justice Delivered

    Vandal * B&E – Thief * Knocked up a middle school girl * Two assaults that we know of. * Flushed his chance for an education, missed about 60 days of school.

    And his Internet presence gave us a very interesting picture of his character and mindset, including his love of the combination of Arizona Watermelon Drink, Skittles and Codeine cough syrup.

    Smoking weed was most certainly not the worst offense.

  • Justice Delivered

    Wrong, there is more than one source of this image, after all this was a public announcement with many people and organizations taking stills and video.

    It seems that both the photographer and AP on on shaky ground.

  • Sc0p

    Go home, stormfront.

  • Sc0p

    “Big business, including big media steal other people’s work all the time. Most of the time they get away with doing so.”

    You know why? Because they have lots of money to pay an army of lawyers to protect them or find a hundred loopholes. GZ doesn’t have the resources of a mega corporation. He can’t even pay the lawyers that helped him walk on murder charges.

    “George could bring a declaratory judgement action, offering the court a series of increasingly modified painting and ask the court to rule.”

    The judge would laugh at him, slam the gavel and award AP the damages they seek.

  • Sc0p

    JD doesn’t do any work.

  • Sc0p

    This is a copyright issue concerning a megacorporation that has enough lawyers to bury GZ in endless paperwork and have him brought up on criminal charges so that he is both in civil and federal court. In fact, I believe that him selling the work may be a felony if it is past a certain value.

  • Sc0p

    “Being the IP holder of the picture does NOT give them rights to the painting.”

    If the painting is plagiarized from their IP, then they DO have rights to the painting. It is like if you grow a rose bush on my property without my permission. It is my rosebush now. To keep or destroy as I see fit.

    “”If Z put some significant original content into it, then he can get a legit © on it as a derivative work. But if it doesn’t have original content, then he can’t get a valid © on it.””

    Ok, your *IP expert* is wrong. Also, it doesn’t matter. GZ didn’t put ANY original content into it. He traced the image and typing some text over it isn’t adding anything to it. Any loser can do that. It would be like me copying, say, the iPhone, curve for curve, line for line, but instead of putting the Apple logo on the thing, I put my own logo and say “See? I added some significant original content to it! I’m totally not ripping off Apple!” and expecting to NOT be sued by the time I’m halfway through my sentence. Please take your Zimbo-blinders off and realize that this will not fly. The Shepard Fairey “HOPE” Piece actually added something significant to the original image and it had real artistic value and that did not stop him from having to make a settlement to pay AP $1.6 million.

    Also, Zimmerman isn’t really getting that much publicity. So far, the media has yawned at this story because AP suing people that steal their work is common.

  • Sc0p

    “Copyright does not create new wealth”

    Yes it does, it promotes people to make their own intellectual property and provides authors and artists a means of protecting their intellectual property from unlicensed use and abuse.

    “while invention does.”

    Copywrited work is basically an *invented* intellectual work product. Nobody would INVENT anything if just anyone can come by and steal their invention. That’s why we have patents. Copywrite exists for the same reason.

  • Sc0p

    Dude, TM’s worst offense was smoking weed. That’s hardly being on a slippery slope for years.

  • Sc0p

    AP has the original photo from Rick Wilson along with their forms where they no doubt had the photograph in question copywritten. Not only that, Rick Wilson himself stands with them and he is the photographer.

  • Sc0p

    “Other forums, specifically legal forums have already identified the same image from other sources.”

    That image originates from Rick Wilson who sold it to AP. AP is the only legitimate source of that image because everyone else has to pay AP a licensing fee to use it.

  • Sc0p

    “Stealing for your own use is just as offensive as stealing something and making profit.”

    As an artist, I have to tell you that you are wrong.

    If I make a story and you decide to make a fanfic of two of my characters shipping for your own personal enjoyment, that isn’t as offensive as you taking that same fanfic that you wrote and trying to sell it. Now you’re eating off of my work. The only reason why people want to see your fanfic is because of my work. Get your own.

  • Sc0p

    It got settled out of court because they threatened to SUE him. Yeah, he still owns the rights to the song because they allowed it, no doubt because he has to pay them royalties. It doesn’t matter either way, they didn’t just sit there and cry hopelessly because they couldn’t do anything to him and he didn’t just pay up out of the goodness of his own heart.

  • eyemale

    totally agree, why do the GZ supporters make so many excuses for this guy? before that Feb night when he shot and killed an un-armed teenager he was a no body going no where . now he become some kind of Messiah who can no wrong and can walk on water with a certain group of people, the lawyer who was going to defend him in the domestic violence case already stated she is no longer his attorney, so he will have to find another lawyer for a copy right suit ,unless one pops up and says they will do it for free (again) his REP for paying “anyone” for services isn’t too good , and copy right cases can go on for days, so I doubt any lawyer will take the case with out money up front. this just another case of hard headed GZ standing his ground where no one tells him what to do or else , the guy thinks he can get a way with any thing , and it time this loser was cut down to size.. let one his supporters hire him if he needs money,

  • Justice Delivered

    Flawed reasoning processes are what caused Trayvon to get himself shot. He had been on the slippery slope towards utter failure for a few years. It appears that none of the adults in his life were willing to able to intervene.

    Teens are a tough time for parents and children alike. At 13 years old one of my children was arguing with me and I was not buying the argument. At that pont we go a foot stomping tantrum and announcement that the teen was mad. My response was that my wife and I might occasionally care, but that the rest of the world did not.

    The teens are a time when parents really need to dispense tough love. That is what Trayvon needed. His parents most certainty knew he was fighting, they new he brook into a house an stole a bunch of women’s jewelry. They new he had been suspended from school twice and that he had been expelled. Yet they did not do squat to bring him under control.

    After his death, they lied repeatedly about his history. Before his death it appears that they just could not make time for him. After his death, when it was too late to save him, he became a full time issue, maybe because there was money it doing so?

    I have no sympathy for the 16-17 year old Trayvon, I do feel sorry for the younger Trayvon who was neglected. He did not have to turn out the way he did and that is his parents fault.

    I think that society needs to take a tough love approach to useless patents because their failure costs all of society. The children and society deserve better.

  • Curtis

    I don’t know why BrandonKay is so angry, but I can tell you logical reasoning is not their best attribute. Screaming and name calling is.

  • Justice Delivered

    No criminal record, not Bonnie, as a matter of law -the court ruled, Zimmerman is innocent—-three strikes and you are out.

  • BrandonKay

    You’re THUG with a long criminal history, Justice Delivered aka Bonnie! Now F off!

  • Justice Delivered

    Is this the best you can do? Which side of the Bell Curve are you on?

    I noticed that you went from five replies, to three replies and now one reply. Now would be a good time to stop, because you have been removing all doubt. Those of us who actually studied all the evidence in the Thugvon case came to the same conclusion police chief Lee and the jury came to. The evidence is overwhelming, especially after considering all Thugvon’s history.

    It is always sad when teens get themselves killed, but not as sad as when they kill someone who is a productive member of society. There is a pretty high probability that if George Zimmerman had not been armed that he would be dead or even worse living as a vegetable.

  • BrandonKay

    Bonnie, go away and count the felonies on your own rap sheet, THUG…. thanks

  • Justice Delivered

    There was only one thug in this case, and he was put down.

  • Justice Delivered

    The painting is far above your pay grade. You are quite entertaining:)

  • Justice Delivered

    Not Bonnie, whomever that is. But, it is pretty easy to jerk your chain.

  • BrandonKay

    Bonnie, worry about your own rap sheet, THUG!

  • BrandonKay

    Is that you Bonnie… how longs your rap sheet? lol

  • BrandonKay

    Where can I find the painting, I would like to place a bid, DOPE!

    Happy sucking his left one.. Now go bother someone who can give you the pathetic attention you need..

  • Christopher Robin

    Instead of George using his imagination to draw and paint his own works,
    he wants to copy and/or trace over another individuals work. Does he
    lack the ability to draw or does he not have any creativity?

  • Justice Delivered

    “But he F’d with the wrong people this time.”

    Are you talking about yourself, or AP?

    It sounds like hot air, you are most certainly impotent.

    Other forums, specifically legal forums have already identified the same image from other sources. Zimmerman is getting help from a broad spectrum of people. At worst, he might need to redo the painting. In the meantime, AP is helping him market it at an even higher price. Unintended consequence can be quite entertaining and profitable.

  • Curtis

    Stealing for your own use is just as offensive as stealing something and making profit. Stealing is stealing. Can you agree with that or do you just come out to argue with people?

  • Justice Delivered

    Brandon,

    You seen to be losing it. Maybe you need your own meds:)

  • Curtis

    Hate to burst your imaginary bubble but I get paid a very good salary to sit here, read articles, and then discuss them with other individuals. No insanity here. Just a well-educated individual trying to better the world. Take a look in the mirror and quit worrying about people you have no personal connection with.

    Calm down and chive on my friend.

  • Curtis

    Seriously. Have you taken your meds today. I don’t understand why you get so angry over some text. Calm down and drink some OJ or something. No need for name calling. That only proves your lack of vocabulary to use.

    I never once suggested that the AP would waste their time about some image. If they want to pursue then that is their right and will probably win. I never disagreed with them taking action against GZ. You just jumped in and started a fight over nothing. And I never said he had a panting for sale. Where are you getting this information from?

    Calm down and chive on my friend.

  • Justice Delivered

    Should I look up a list of articles by AP which were written to promote big business theft of small business intellectual property and post it here?

  • Justice Delivered

    Big business, including big media steal other people’s work all the time. Most of the time they get away with doing so. When they are caught and held accountable they whine.

    At what time is something which is used for inspiration free of AP copyright claims?

    Corey’s innate ugliness could be enhanced by altering her face to be wider, Zimmerman could give her a hook nose, how far does it need to go to make AP leave Zimmerman alone?

    George could bring a declaratory judgement action, offering the court a series of increasingly modified painting and ask the court to rule. There are quite a large number of public advocacy organizations who might weigh in.

  • Justice Delivered

    So is Internet troll replacing claims of racism?

  • Justice Delivered

    That is interesting, in that copyright interests have a history of stealing from America’s inventors. Copyright does not create new wealth, while invention does.

    So how about cutting copyright term to twenty years from first date published?

    The only exception should be news, say thirty days before becoming public domain.

  • Justice Delivered

    Maybe he should hold the painting for a bit over a year in order to get long term capital gains treatment and then donate it for a tax deduction? The only comparable for appraisal is the first painting. That could save him 10-15 thousand in tax liability.

    A defense fund is possible, he has shown an ability to raise funds in the past:)

  • BrandonKay

    Go bother someone who wants to read your insanity.. Maybe a job that pays…

  • BrandonKay

    “Angry”?!! I do NOT like THIEVES! But I’m not going to go back and forth with a compete ignoramus. You’re moron to suggest that the Associated Press would waste their time on that killer-thief Zimmerman if they could not prove that he STOLE their image! But keep suggesting that copyright infringement is not the LAW and suggesting that Zimmerman is not a THIEF! Waste your dam life away, be my guest.

    And where is that so called painting up for sale, moron! THINK!

  • Curtis

    That is the exact thing an Internet troll would say. BTW, Internet is capitalized.

  • Curtis

    Are you a certified health professional? Why do you make such claims as to why someone has done something even though you have never met them before in your life? Why the name-calling? Is it because you are upset with yourself and you want to push your anger towards others?

    Back to the topic of Zimmerman. Perhaps he was already in need of mental help before this incident and not just because of the incident and the aftermath. That would be consistent with evidence that his family was estranged long before the incident in 2012. So be careful to placing characteristics that you can’t back up. Don’t just read an article and believe everything you read.

  • Curtis

    Have you taken your meds today? There is no reason for name calling nor the fact that you seem to be upset with the world over nothing. I was merely stating that intellectual property is commonly used without the consent of others. I in no way was supporting Zimmerman and what he did/does. Just pointing out facts. Don’t know if you are old enough but have you ever recorded a song from the radio on a cassette tape? If so, well, you have stolen intellectual property. Have you ever came home from work and discussed your day with a significant other? Just because the information your disclosed to your significant other is not “copyrighted” does not mean it is acceptable to discuss the details of your day because the information you discuss is the property of your company. Therefore, you have broken the intellectual property claim. Ever shared a MP3 with a family member or friend? If so, well, you stole intellectual property whether you meant it or not. Have you ever shared a picture via Facebook? Well, that is stealing intellectual property without the consent of the owner. So be careful what you say. As far as intellectual property how do you propose we become creative if we can’t build off of what has already been established?

  • BrandonKay

    NO ONE, including YOU or the THIEF Zimmerman has any right to STEAL INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY! The end, bozo!

  • BrandonKay

    The only individual who looks bad is the THIEF who stole intellectual property.. and of course, Zimmerman apologists who enable a sick man who can not for the life of him tell the truth or respect others’ property.

  • BrandonKay

    AP doesn’t want his traced print. But they can stop the thief!

    Respect the fact that a legitimate photographer took this image and the Associated Press owns it!

    How the heII would you like another person STEALING your work?!!

  • BrandonKay

    So says an internet troll? You Z-ero apologists fascinate me. lolol

  • BrandonKay

    Have you set up a defense fund for the thief? Good luck with that. lol

  • BrandonKay

    There is nothing “fair” about STEALING intellectual property. Try reading the article instead of just looking at the pictures.

  • BrandonKay

    These enabling Z-ero’s are the very reason why the killer thinks he’s invincible. But he F’d with the wrong people this time.

  • Justice Delivered

    “Isn’t AP’s marking and displaying, the painting the same thing?”

    Being the holder IP holder of the picture does NOT give them rights to the painting.

    I asked an IP expert and his response was:

    “If Z put some significant original content into it, then he can get a legit © on it as a derivative work. But if it doesn’t have original content, then he can’t get a valid © on it.”

    There is no question that the painting has original content.

    In the meantime, AP is giving George Zimmerman lots of free publicity.

  • Curtis

    Who is encouraging?

  • Curtis

    Who is enabling and cheering a “killer-thief?” Facts are facts whether you appreciate them or not. Everybody in this world has rights including yourself.

  • BrandonKay

    Hey Katy Texas, it’s people like you who need their head checked enabling and cheering on a killer-thief!

  • BrandonKay

    It’s people like you who need their head checked enabling and cheering on a killer-thief!

  • BrandonKay

    Encourage a KILLER-THIEF, way to go!

  • Justice Delivered

    “At the end of the day, he’d lose badly.”

    People like you made the same claims about the trial, at the end of the day who lost badly?

    At this point I am sure that Zimmerman will get legal advice. If it turns out that you are right then he can use the painting in other ways to make AP look bad. One way or another AP will lose, the only question is what form that loss takes.

    Every day more people become disgusted with copyright excesses. On one discussion group there were suggestions that copyright term should be lowered to twenty years, with the exception of news related copyright which due to the fast pace would be a month.

    What do you think of that?

  • Curtis

    Wrong again. He was never sued because nobody could legitimately prove that he took the music from Bowie and Queen. The entire ordeal happened outside of court for an undisclosed amount. Probably meaning he just pays royalties on each song sold. Not to mention he still owns the rights to the song.

  • George Linard

    LOL. The AP claim has no merit. You need proof and your personal bias doesn’t qualify. Didn’t you learn ANYTHING from the murder trial?

  • Sc0p

    “Isn’t AP’s marking and displaying, the painting the same thing?”

    No, they are the IP holder of the picture.

    “How much did AP pay the photographer?”

    What difference does it make? It is THEIR property, they can charge whatever they want for it or keep it totally to themselves if they wish. Not only that but the photographer and HIS lawyer stands with AP on this issue.

    “Zimmerman should do another painting with Corey’s hand offering a finger gesture”

    As long as he doesn’t steal anyone’s work to do it, I don’t see why that would be a problem legally. But to be frank, he doesn’t have enough talent or skill to paint anything without having to steal it.

    “The truth of the matter is that copyright, and especially attempts to crush fair use and to extend the term to outlandishly long times has set the
    stage for a serious backlash.”

    AP won’t suffer ANY backlash for protecting their intellectual property. Not only is the LAW on their side, but so is the artistic community at large. NOBODY likes a plagiarist.

    “George Zimmerman has the potential to ride that wave and cost AP dearly”

    That didn’t happen with the Obama Hope picture and the guy that stole that picture legitimately has far more wealth and celebrity than Zimmerman ever did or will. Zimmerman is only infamous. People, that aren’t RWNJ’s, dislike him. At the end of the day, he’d lose badly.

  • Justice Delivered

    “Don’t steal peoples stuff.”

    Isn’t AP’s marking and displaying, the
    painting the same thing?

    How much did AP pay the photographer? What is
    that picture really worth?

    The Fairey case is not the same. He used the
    actual photo, while all Zimmerman did was project the image and then paint the
    outlines with his interpretation. That did transform the image.

    Perhaps
    Zimmerman should do another painting with Corey’s hand offering a finger gesture
    to an AP logo? That would be very clear fair use.

    Then he could hold a
    press conference, and present the new painting after burning the current
    one?

    The truth of the matter is that copyright, and especially attempts
    to crush fair use and to extend the term to outlandishly long times has set the
    stage for a serious backlash.

    George Zimmerman has the potential to ride
    that wave and cost AP dearly. Maybe AP should be
    in the center of the same kind of firestorm they helped create for George
    Zimmerman?

  • Sc0p

    Civil cases like this are tried by a judge.

    Bottom line is that there are tons of cases that show that Zimmerman can not win this and not only that, wind up facing criminal charges if he insists on violating copyright law. Your arguments fail on so many levels.

    “Government response should have been to track down and charge everyone who threatened him.”

    Then you agree that the government should track down and charge Zimmerman for threatening people online then? Last I checked, the government doesn’t have magical powers or clairvoyance.

  • Justice Delivered

    That is up to a jury to decide. Look at her history, the photo shows a rather ugly package. Zimmerman’s intentions could have been to show that the photo did not make the point and his feelings about her.

    She used hook and crook to charge him when the evidence did not support such.

    Government response should have been to track down and charge everyone who threatened him. Instead they encouraged those threats.

  • Sc0p

    Transformative works are not covered under fair use.

    “Another thing, AP has a picture of this painting which they have marked wit AP and Associated Press, and a link to an image sales site which appears to offer single copies for $25 in 8×10 and larger copies at higher prices.”

    Um, AP is the original IP holder of the image.

    “It seems that AP needs an attitude adjustment.”

    The same way Shepard Fairey gave AP an attitude adjustment by paying them $1.6 million dollars in damages when he tried to sue them to claim ownership of the picture that he stole, thus blowing up fantastically in his face.

    Look, if you come into my yard to steal my riding mower and I move to chase you out of my yard, I’m not the person that needs an attitude adjustment. Don’t steal peoples stuff.

  • Sc0p

    No, the painting does not criticize the photo itself. Regardless of whether or not you like her character, the original photo or photographer is not claiming to show her as a paragon of righteousness in any way.

  • Sc0p

    That does NOT work. Both pictures line up perfectly with each other. That means that the camera from the broadcast would have to be in the exact same spot as the photographer’s camera at the exact same time.

    Here’s an idea. How about you work on accepting that Zimmerman pushed the wrong button and less time thinking up excuses that won’t work.

  • tom

    George can just say he copied the painting from the video broadcast at around the 1:10 mark. Likewise the room was full of cameras and he can get someone else to sell him their version of the pic for say $100 or so.

    Shouldn’t be too much trouble for him to have the first one be a study and sell the second one free and clear. Trayvonauts are going to get hurt again, while their enablers egg them on to wish harm on Zimm.

  • Justice Delivered

    The painting does criticize the photo itself. The photo failed to properly show inner character.

  • Justice Delivered

    The painting is also trans-formative. It says so much more about Corey that the picture said.

    Another thing, AP has a picture of this painting which they have marked wit AP and Associated Press, and a link to an image sales site which appears to offer single copies for $25 in 8×10 and larger copies at higher prices.

    It looks to me like AP does not understand that the painting is covered by its own copyright.

    It seems that AP needs an attitude adjustment.

  • Sc0p

    Fair use does not work like that. Fair use would only work if you made an image to criticize the photo itself, not the person in the photo

  • Sc0p

    Vanilla Ice got sued and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Your counterpoint is flawed.

  • Curtis

    Your comment has some credibility but it is faulted. Take a look at Vanilla Ice’s song Ice, Ice, baby. It sold close to 2 million copies of that song alone and it was an apparent copy Queen’s Under Pressure. Just shows that you can alter intellectual property slightly and get away with stealing.

  • billmarvel

    …on the other hand, there is the fair use for satiric intent defense. If I were his lawyer, that’s the direction I’d take.

  • Christopher Robin

    If you take one of Tom Clancy’s novels and edit 10 words out of the entire book, publish it in your name and try to sell it, I got some bad news for you. Your argument that its not the EXACT same novel because 10 words are out or you added 2 chapters is irrelevant. GZ thinks he is clever by taking a photo, tracing over it or using Photoshop makes it his ORIGINAL art that should be worth $$$.

    GZ is stealing plain and simple, because he is too lazy or incapable of drawing anything himself. Does he not have the imagination to create from SCRATCH his own art? Even his last so called painting is clearly a graphic he found off the web and traced over. I can do the same thing in Photoshop and wouldn’t need a drop of paint.

  • DRAKE MALLARD

    I’ll go out on a limb and predict some future tax evasion charges related to these “artwork” sales on EBay.